Fury Warrior - Capstone Talents

Classes Warrior
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Now that we have some good buffs coming on Tuesday, let’s look forward. I think the biggest issue facing the Fury Spec tree at the moment is the capstone talent section of the tree. Pretty much all builds looking at the buffs on Tuesday are taking Bladestorm/Ravager + Unhinged and either RA or AM based on preference. The balance of this particular segment to support what you prefer is to be commended.

HOWEVER, literally everything else is mostly ignored. AM builds can make the case to take Depths of Insanity sometimes.

Onslaught, Tenderize, Storm of Steel (wtf even is this), Unbridled Ferocity, Odyn’s Fury, Titanic Rage, and Dancing Blades are all looking to be ignored completely simply because they are not good. Odyn’s Fury might have some fringe use cases in super bursty situations still - but is largely meaningless pad damage.

Odyn’s Fury

This still has a special place in my heart from Legion, and I understand the need to nerf it - but it’s essentially been nerfed so much it’s no longer worth taking. I would really like to lean into the follow-up nodes. Not only are neither of them very good, but the cost of the talent point is a crucial factor in the balance.

Titanic Rage - The only talent worth picking at the moment, and the whirlwind stacks are some great quality of life. But in a world where OF has been nerfed as heavily as it is - this simply doesn’t compete anymore. For the cost of the talent point it needs to buff OF more and definitely keep the quality of life Whirlwind stacks - Might I even be so bold to encourage working in the Torghast Power “Fans of Longsword” that would have OF empower your next rampage or two to also cast Whirlwind. It’s a capstone talent point - make it awesome!

Dancing Blades - So this is just garbage. Needs to be totally reworked. Something along the lines of the Dragonflight season 3 tier bonus could be cool to here to reduce the cooldown and empower some single target damage following it as a counter option to the AoE of Titanic Rage.

Onslaught

Personally I’ve never felt this does anything worthwhile as a separate button, and I have to wonder if it can replace or empower something instead. Execute and Rampage maybe prime targets? Follow-up nodes to let you choose?

I feel like Fury lacks options to lean into execute and maybe this could be a path for that. With all the balancing that’s taken place a similar argument could be made for players that really want to lean into Rampage, but current designs often have you sitting at rage cap with other abilities in priority.

Unbridled Ferocity & Depths of Insanity

Unbridled Ferocity - simply overnerfed. Recklessness procs generally feel pretty solid, even if the cooldown is relatively weak. If it was rebuffed back into the 10% range I think it would be a compelling and engaging talent pick

Depths of Insanity - A dead talent all of Dragonflight, almost the same here in War Within. This needs something else - the most popular option I see talked about a lot is to have it grant some additional critical strike damage to Recklessness in addition to the increased duration. Maybe have it grant both crit damage and crit chance. Either way the extra duration alone is not enough.

Storm of Steel

wtf even is this talent. When unhinged feels so good with some great interactions across the spec I would say just delete this and put effort into anything else.

Bladestorm/Ravager + Capstone Pathing

Bladestorm/Ravager + Unhinged are AWESOME. I might argue that in a world where our capstones are actually desirable that we need less 2 point gatekeeping talents in the final part of the tree to increase talent point economy. Maybe Bladestorm becomes a central part of the tree as a talent you’re more or less forced to take to open up options and pathing to everything else in the bottom. Maybe that’s not needed, but I do think the pathing in the bottom part of the tree needs to be better. It just doesn’t matter too much right now because we hardly care about any of the talents that are down there lol.

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I personally like Onslaught, its a free enrage on a pull, deals heavy damage with a short CD.

However the problem right now is that it doesn’t deal enough damage and we skip a capstone on our single target DPS builds.

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Yeh I’m not saying it can’t be salvaged, but it might also be able to do those things you mentioned by being built into an existing button.

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What’s funny is that I would actually love to have this as Arms…

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I couldn’t agree more with the issues you presented, I however don’t fully agree with the suggestions to fix them.

I think OF should be strong enough on its own without a follow up node. Now that it’s soft-capped to 5 targets including it’s bleed I believe reverting some of the prior nerfs would be a good first step. Uncapping the bleed would also be great.

The pure QoL this brings is sooooo good, it should honestly just be a default feature of Odyns Fury.

A revamped effect should remain AOE oriented, I think increasing the bleed damage and duration would be a good way to increase the AOE damage while keeping the burst potential in chack.

I entirely agree with DF S3 tier set effect, it’s my favourite Warrior tier set effect so far, I don’t know if the CDR aspect should be a part of it however, just the 3 empowered BT/BB hits would be more than fantastic as a ST option.

Yeah, Onslaught as its own button doesn’t fit super well, Fury’s rotation is already pretty busy and Onslaught doesn’t distinguish itself enough outside of it’s animation.

I like your idea of it acting as a stronger Execute/Rampage but at the same time both Execute and Rampage are pretty iconic to Warrior/Fury so I don’t think they should be replaced.

I’d like to take a page out of Arm’s book and imitate what Executioners Precision does in an altered way: When Rampage hits a target under 20/35% HP your next Execute cast deals increased damage.

Just make the damage increase substantial enough that you want to press Execute at least once per Rampage cast. It should make for a nice dynamic where RB and BT still get pressed.

The follow up node could remain similar, Execute gives you 1-2 stacks of Slaughtering Strikes. This would again encourage the one Execute per Rampage dynamic.

Is it weird that I grew to hate the RNG “let’s go gambling” aspect of this talent during Aberrus in DF?

I think AM does the Reck uptime talent far better than this ever will, at least AM has a skill aspect with maximizing uptime.
I would honestly like it if this got removed entirely.

Yes *100 to Crit damage increase.

No comments, you’re absolutely right about Storm of Steel, it technically had a micro niche in DF if a fight lasted less than 30 seconds but when does that ever happen?

Just remove this talent entirely.

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You are completely looking past the elephant in the room. They designed a Hero Talent Tree that revolves around Bladestorm. There is a reason why Fury had Bladestorm removed as a talent for them. What did they do? They hard a bargain day and passed out free Bladestorms. Blizzard then realized what they did and then nerfed it into the ground and really peaved alot of people off. Bladestorm was NEVER able to be balanced for Fury and they failed yet again to balance it.

I say Blizzard take the hate mail and removed Bladestorm from the tree and make it exclusive to Arms and bake it into the spec. Replaced the current node and move on.

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This would be nice, and I’m not sure it’s really an out of line request either. The whirlwind stacks and enrage both feel so good, but really aren’t very strong.

For sure - I can agree with this. Using it as an empowering option rather than replacing iconic spells.

Just to address this specifically I think Aberrus was an extreme version of this. Between an AM that was stronger than what we have currently, higher rage gen than we have currently, and Unbridled Ferocity having more than triple the proc rate it has currently.

That all combined to make Recklessness almost passive, and it felt like garbage on the low roll when it had some downtime instead of almost always being up.

There’s a balance there where Reck procs feel good to have instead of bad to not have. At the moment it’s all just nerfed so much you don’t care about the talent at all.

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Against what?

Let’s not pretend the way talent balance works across DF–TWW is anything like from MoP to ShL or Vanilla to Cata.

While I was going to say that I don’t want OF to require any follow-up talents to be worth taking… that it would be slightly better per point with them than without is actually fine to me just for the sake of build distinction.

And agreed, the follow-up talents feel pretty lame at the moment, though I suspect that has a bit more to do with more core issues. For instance, if we had some Rage overflow options, we could actually do something with excess rage generation from the likes of (a revised) Dancing Blades, Onslaught, and plenty more. A spitball to that effect:

  • Rage generation reduced by ~20%, but Rampage now costs 60 Rage and increases Haste by a further 1% per 12 Rage spent in the last 5 seconds (with multiple applications overlapping).
  • Slaughtering Strikes replaced with Onslaught, which allows Rampage to spend ALL available Rage, increasing its damage dealt more than proportionately but Enrage duration caused by a much less than proportionate amount. This in turn means that Bloodthirst and Execute can again be tuned against Raging Blow in their own right, and Bloodthirst-based Enrages can be more valuable.
  • Frenzy replaced with Bottomless Wrath, which now instead causes Rampage to doubly benefit from a prior Enrage, giving increased value for chaining Rampages and/or triggering Enrage via Bloodthirst prior.

    Altogether, this would allow for a greater maximum speed of Rage spending, greater damage contribution from otherwise wholly excess Rage generation, and greater playflow optionality.

That said…

I wouldn’t mind seeing each AA reduce OF’s cooldown by 30% of its weapon speed atop some added AA speed (and AA damage) on use. Would be unintrusive to build choice elsewhere while sounding thematic.

Since OF is a glorified Bloodthirsting Whirlwind in itself, I’d just go ahead and baseline the bundled Whirlwind-enrage on Odyn’s Fury. For Titanic Rage, though, I wouldn’t mind the FoLS treatment or even just an option to extend the target cap again (albeit now at a cost that you won’t always find worthy).

I’d rather not have yet more target priming, tbh.

As per above, I’d rather Slaughtering Strikes stop being a more obtuse way to lift up Raging Blow in particular and instead just have any such effects by which Raging Blow contributes bonus damage be just through its extend of Rage gen or within its own casts as to make fixating so much on it a bit more optional and tied to Raging Blow itself in pathing and theme, rather than being so central and UI-bloat-dependent.

I think baselining a cheaper a relatively cheaper Rampage and then just allowing for further overflow would be a great way to handle that. That said, I wouldn’t mind seeing, say, a Slayer talent whereby each killing blow strikes up to 3 enemies nearby with Slayer’s Strike or for Bloodthirst to go off automatically from an Execute (or at least a chance to trigger Enrage from Execute, with a guarantee against targets not previously Executed) or something of that sort.

I don’t want to see this become obligatory again due to its per-point value, but atop bringing it back to competitive efficiency I’d actually kinda love to see a second point added as an option.

That’d be nice, yeah.

For me the larger issue is just that it’s on a choice node with Unhinged, not that it exists.

And frankly, there seems little reason for any of the capstone choice nodes to be choice nodes so long as there can be at least a bit of anti-synergy between the two options (a la Unbridled and Depths, with each devaluing the other a bit, though not necessarily that badly) to mostly cancel out any other inherent synergies of affecting the same talent. Why have 2 co-pickable choices for the one path and not the other three?

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