Fury AOE fix done easy

While reading the forums, I have gathered complaints and idea from people and thought of a creative solution to Fury’s AOE issue.

Odyn’s Fury costing 80 rage (the equivalent of Rampage) and tuning the damage to be greater than a 5 cleave rampage due to it being uncapped AOE. Take the cap off, have it spread Hot Steel, Cold Blood, and give Fury the second rage dump its needed for awhile now. Even if its soft capped at 8 targets, it would give Fury an equivalent to Divine Storm, possibly even stronger due to it applying bleeds and it not being spammable in nature like DS is.

The only alternative I see from this is making Sweeping Strikes 100% value and bumping the Meat Cleaver Mechanic to 70-100% damage to allow the “class fantasy” of the “5 target specialist” (which isnt exactly working out right now) If they want Odyn’s Fury to be the “Iconic Fury move” get rid of its CD and have it cost rage, apply Meat Cleaver and Enrage with talent, and allow it to spread our bleeds for sustain. If anyone has any feedback id like to get this moving forward so hopefully Fury gets its overly due tuning.

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Personally I’m of the mind of the following.

Meat cleaver has overstayed it’s welcome and the fact that it’s both limited in it’s hard target cap alongside being forever linked to ST tuning means that it’ll always cause problems since buffing it outright steps on the toes of Arms and Sweeping Strikes. Whether you like Arms or not, Fury shares a class with it and their contrasting kits need to have balance between the two with different niche damage profiles so both see play throughout different areas of pve.

With Meat cleaver removed we’ll need to add some AoE to the kit itself, Whirlwind is a prime option here to return the WW portion of Storm of Swords from DF with it doing drastically more damage while also having a cooldown say ~8s. In terms of tuning it would probably be best to be something around ~75% of BT’s damage per target so it doesn’t displace BT or RB in the ST rotation, but it comes ahead of Slam as a filler when BT and RB are not available to hit. While also then being an important AoE ability.
Add WW to reap the storm alongside BT with the condition of 3+ targets being hit to proc it for Slayer with this projected adjustment.

An AoE rage dump is definitely a good way to provide a drop off damage ability that isn’t linked to ST throughput. Odyn’s Fury could work here, but honestly while I had the same idea 2 weeks ago I’m not exactly sold on the ability name as it kinda sounds lame and doesn’t really evoke any feeling that yeah that’s a warrior attack. Maybe it could be renamed to Bloodbath, which would fit better into short AoE bleed application it would provide assuming it took the same baseline of what Odyn’s Fury is a short AoE bleed.

Obviously you would have it consume Slaughtering Strike stacks, provide frenzy stacks etc.
Being balanced somewhat around the level of 75% of what rampage deals to a single target so it’s always the best option at 2+ targets.

I would split the attack into the following ~70% of it’s AP modifier would be subject to the 5+ target drop off damage, while the remaining 30% of it’s AP modifier would be counted as an ‘uncapped’ bleed to somewhat mirror Deep Wounds for Arms with it’s application via cleave/warbreaker, however due to the nature of it being a short bleed in this situation 3/4s with it ticking at least 2 times say 1.5s/2.0s per tick it wouldn’t end up being overpowered but it would also allow for some staying power when more targets are involved so there isn’t as large of a drop off due to the target caps.

If they really did not want to add in another rage dump for fury, they could just add it into Rampage itself, where it applies a short bleed to all targets hit around you like I suggested for the AoE dump. But that would also entail rampage being reworked animation wise to be more wild swings around the warrior with extended weapon trails / windpressure effects so it looks like a rampage around them.

4 Likes

Odyn’s Fury costing 80 rage (the equivalent of Rampage) and tuning the damage to be greater than a 5 cleave rampage due to it being uncapped AOE. Take the cap off, have it spread Hot Steel, Cold Blood, and give Fury the second rage dump its needed for awhile now. Even if its soft capped at 8 targets, it would give Fury an equivalent to Divine Storm, possibly even stronger due to it applying bleeds and it not being spammable in nature like DS

I Agree that fury does need to have his AOE fixed ASAP, But this is not a good idea at all. We dont need to another "ARMS/RET’’ Style of gameplay, yours actual gameplay it is great it is fun, is just the numbers that are real bad. My opinion is that Odyns fury need to have a lower CD bigger damage so we can use without being a dps loss. And meat cleaver has or his % up or his cap up.

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Yeah I really don’t want OF to just become an AoE spender.

Fury AoE design obviously has a lot of problems that could be worked on, but I like fury having a handful of cooldowns
that are strong and powerful (even if tuning kind of blows on this front at the moment)

Make OF strong, give it two interesting and powerful follow-up nodes to create gameplay around it.

To be honest I’m not sure I even think the design of Fury AoE is a problem, it just needs to be soft capped and our cooldowns need to actually be good

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How would it be any different than reapplying WW/Thunderclap before casting rampage? It wouldnt be spammable as it would cost 80 rage, as the capstones to Odyn’s Fury grants rage and Meat Cleaver stacks. I dont necessarily see this as a bad thing, consider all the above statements I made. Casting WW/Thunderclap every 4 attacks without a Thunderblast proc feels atrocious. I also think making Thunderblast proc Odyn’s Fury could add into the “blood and thunder” theme of Mountain Thane. Odyn’s Fury would need its numbers change, but I think having a Suped up Meatcleaver generator at the cost of rage would be a cool change of pace and add much needed sustain (furys biggest weakness as uptime is everything)

I also put in my suggestion the same thing with having the damage % increased instead could also help, as Blizzard wants us to be the “5 target specialist” but were not atm. 55% isnt high enough, as tuning our Single Target is the only way of increasing damage outside tuning Meat Cleaver up, which shouldve happened along time ago.

Just buff thunder blast to have no target cap. This wouldn’t disrupt the balance of fury in raids, and would give the spec a semi-reliable ability to use in large AOE situations.

This is actually a cook. Turn OF from a soft CD into a spender. I like it

Is the AoE cap that’s making fury warriors bad in M+ actually anyone spec that’s hard cap/soft cap just isn’t going to be the best in M+. Fact is if Fury is cap at 5 targets we should be doing the most damage in 5 target sutation but this isn’t the case. You have uncapped spec that’s does the best damage in 5 target, 8, and 8+ target so why would any group handicapped themselves.

I said this before and I will say it again either hard cap , soft cap or uncapp all spec and class otherwise you can never balance M+.

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Thunderclap/blast are not target capped, they are 5+ target drop off.

Raising Thunder Clap and Thunder Blast’s square root scaling to begin at 8 targets would go a long way to at least making Fury serviceable at higher key levels, and probably brings Thane Prot in line with Colossus Prot to a degree as well.

As a player who regularly plays both Fury and Prot, it’s also frustrating that our AoE target scaling is causing threat issues as a tank at higher gear levels. Certain uncapped specs are just doing numerically too much damage with how gear is scaling this season, and there were numerous random mobs breaking off to DPS during burst phases in the MDI banner keys I did this weekend. I was already beginning to see the struggle in mid 660s and at 678 it was actively un-fun.

But I digress. I’d like Fury to be as viable as Prot in keys so that I’m not forced to tank to play with my friends at higher levels. Ultimately Fury needs a complete overhaul but we know that isn’t happening in TWW.

I agree with all of this, but I know Blizzard wont give up on their idea. Ive played meat cleaver since they started it and idk if itll ever go away because the focused so hard on it being its core gameplay loop.

That being said, the other day you mentioning the AOE rage dump in another forum post inspired me to look at the talent tree to see what could change. I found several issues, starting honestly with Anger Management effecting Recklessness instead of Avatar, completely destroying the choice in that node. Intimidating shout being so difficult to take is another core issue as it offers an aoe stop in emergency situations.

Not to say being a game developer isnt hard, but Fury on the surface doesnt seem hard to fix. Meat Cleaver is a built-in tuning knob they refuse to twist. Giving Warrior heroism, as it fits class fantasy and would finally give a tank that provides heroism, easing group comps more in non meta niche builds, giving easier access to other shouts for fear immunities, mass slows, its all there. A heroism shout/banner would go along way. Hell, at this point Id take giving rend back for more sustain as were only buffing HSCB with Thunderous roar. I also feel like Demolish stacks for arms should be able to be loaded and saved for boss RP (first boss in Mechagon, transition phase in CBM, etc.)

TLDR Ive been playing both specs and im at the point where the answers kinda become more and more obvious but I have the theory that Warrior isnt on the Dev to-do list and theyre still hyper fixated on the classes they decided they were gonna “fix” during Dragonflight (Shaman Ret and DK being the pet projects it seems). With a limited team, when goals are set its not hard to imagine they overly dedicate to a couple classes.

Or I can be hateful and assume its all because Mages hate Warriors and obviously everyone at Blizz HQ plays Mage and Paladin lol

Yeah, every single bit of utility we have access to in our talent tree is locked out from even pathing through it since we don’t really have any spare points to backtrack and go down different talent paths, let alone the remaining 11 points we have once we reach the 3rd rung of the tree are all locked into DPS options.

The only way we get any semblance of freedom in our talent builds is by changing both Crushing Force and Reinforced Plates to 1 point nodes, which then allows us to have 3 spare points as opposed to 1 spare point once filling in all mandatory AoE build pathing.

As for if they’ll go for that until they decide to rework the class tree who knows. This has been provided as feedback from the change we got going into S2 which killed off any semblance of build variation with our stamina node going to the 2nd part of the tree (Great change, but implemented poorly without any further thought to what was left of the talent tree itself).

I’m personally of the mindset that Warrior doesn’t even really need heroism/bloodlust added to them for the fact that comp wise a Warrior almost always when building around them will be grouped with either a Shaman (Arms/Prot love skyfury) or Hunter (only AP based range spec) so it’s just doubling up on unnecessary utility.

As for what they could do (some of, not all) honestly leaning more into adding an enrage steal, debuffing shouts on a medium length CD (45s/60s), an AoE grip through a ground stomp esq ability (120s CD so it’s not imposing on DK utility, but complements it) or even a physical counter attack (spell reflect, but for physical school attacks), where it allows you to ‘parry’ an attack and send it back for more damage this could be built into Intervene with a follow up talent where it only intervenes the next attack, but you parry it and then send the damage back.

That’s honestly not a bad idea thinking about it, meat cleaver for more prio damage with rampage, and for full on aoe, odyn’s fury.

Fury is also simple enough that adding one ability is not gonna be a problem even for not so great players.

There is also another idea that they could use but this could actually be used together, which is to bring back fan of longswords.

I’m aware, which is why if only thunder blast was uncapped (no dmg fall off) it would go a long way to fixing fury AOE issues.

Ok, that didn’t read like how you intended it to. So basically no drop off at all or a higher cap before drop off compared to clap? Blast could probably use an 8+ drop off in that case to differentiate it from clap as the improved variant.

I think we should keep clap the same so as not to totally disrupt fury dmg scaling. But having blast be more of a true AOE nuke could really help bring us up some. Even once we’re BiS that’s still roughly 5%-ish more damage from our weapons alone, nowhere near the gap we’re facing on large pulls in M+ dungeons.

It would be kind of a less frequent pre-nerf Demonsurge damage boost.

interestingly enough there was talk of Heroic Leap having a talent that would pull enemies with you. I wonder what happened to that? If I remember correctly they didnt want it competing with Gorefiends grasp

Also, if we dont receive hero, the damage needs to get amplified. Blizzard getting away from utility tax has gotten absurd considering the nerfs to Rallying Cry and our talent tree predicament. Either they make arms/fury premier dps or they come off a major piece of utility to give to warriors.

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This is correct.

But tbh they just need to reduce the total number of raid buffs, make sure dks have one of them, and two classes offering the same type of utility shouldn’t be the end of the world.

In the current world where grip is DK “raid utility” I can understand being more possessive of it.

There’s another hero tree that does not use thunder blast.

Thunderclap isn’t even on my hotbar as slayer. Bladestorm will need tuning as well. If I could use bladestorm as thane and interrupt while channeling bladestorm then I would consider it, but until that point I will always use slayer in all content.

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What? Why? It’s a fantastic way to spread rend to 5 targets around you.