Why on gods green earth is this a 3 minute cooldown? It does less damage than a single 2H Obliterate. Thats completely unacceptable even for being a 1.5min CD base. But FWF is a 3min CD and only 1.5 with an additional talent. The only reason its taken is because its tied to Rider’s final talent. FwF did good damage when it was introduced. But now its literally worth less than 2 runes. Its god awful and only actually worth pressing because its not on the GCD. It needs to do like 5-10x the damage it does for single target and like 3x for multi target. Either that or lower the CD to like 40 seconds with the talent.
You know it’s funny when its damage in PvP was reduced by whopping 70% and yet in PvE it’s just not enough to warrant such a long cooldown.
If the Dracolich hits like a truck, I might pick up the Mechagnome again…
… and fix the damned Veteran of the Third War nerfs. I really don’t think this nerf was warranted.
5 Likes
Seriously. I’ve had Frost Strike crit harder than FwF does with the current 2pc bonus and Shatter build.
The single target damage it does doesn’t warranty ANY cooldown at all. They should honestly just target cap it at 8 targets and buff its damage to compensate.
Using 2 talents to get a 1.5min CD that crits for like 1.5 mil is downright hilarious. That has to be the lowest damage cooldown in the entire game. Chillstreak does more than that and thats a 45sec cd.
3 Likes
Don’t forget it’s an aoe with a 40 yard range, that does count for something. It’s not a weak ability, though it may be better suited as a one point talent.
It used to be a bit more important when damage scaled to ridiculous amount towards the end of pillar of frost, it made for a huge ‘finisher’. It’s definitely lost a bit of its luster though.
With virtually no target cap, triggers all riders if you have that hero spec, and it freezes all enemies hit for 3 seconds. If you take something, and isolate one aspect, of course its going to look like its junk.
You would get the same result if you isolated Obliterates baseline damage from everything else.
- FWF is a cooldown, not a baseline ability.
- All of the functionality you’re bringing up is only possible with an entire subtree of talents. Not 1 isolated cooldown. Not 1 baseline ability.
- Its damage isn’t modified at all in exchange for triggering Riders. It does craptastic damage with or without it. While we’re at it though, the fact that we are forced to take such a weak talent for Riders to work correctly is bad too. You know what else triggers Riders? Summoning an Abom which is a 1.5min CD with only 1 talent and does more damage.
- Theres a reason Deathbringer builds don’t use FwF. Its G A R B A G E its taken strictly out of necessity or to avoid wasted talent points for the builds that do use it.
Kel with the brainless L takes as usual. Stop posting on the forums and go play the game.
4 Likes
And completely missed the point.
It is on GCD.
I agree with your complaint though that it isn’t quite right. Since the PoF changes it kinda has become underwhelming for a 3min CD. But because it’s tied to riders I don’t think the CD can be changed at all. Perhaps just bake absolute zero into it for a 1 talent point pickup rather than 2.
Its criminal how little damage it does in PvP. You only take it for the stun and rider activation. The damage doesn’t even hit hard enough to break your sleet. A 3min ability should be able to move a hp bar at least a little bit.
1 Like
Abom is a 2 point talent as well.
Its because of the AoE. Taking down 20 peoples health down to half per damage area which is what FwF is made up of is not a good idea.
I dont get why people try to isolate one aspect of something and not take its whole to make a more well informed opinion on something.
If you really need 20 enemies to deal reasonable amount of damage to compensate its low ST damage output, I don’t think it’s a well-rounded ability.
Especially on a 3-minute (or 1.5 minute with the talent) cooldown.
RotA forcing you to allocate FwF and Army (AZ and Buttons for shorter CD) in order to make full use out of hero talent isn’t really all that great either.
3 Likes
Especially a 3min CD thats literally a skillshot. Granted, it has a massive hitbox but still. It can be dodged through sheer luck.
Then get rid of it. Because its not going to do uber ST damage, while being aoe, while freezing people, while summoning the horsemen. It does enough for a 1.5 minute CD.
Its things like this that just proves my point more and more that the players on these forums just want to be overpowered.
i hate talenting it too, i uate even pressing it, FwF feels like such a filler button and thats awful for a base 3 min CD esp wen fdk has so many great talents i could pick up instead. Would be cool if it could consume KM to auto crit in bug aoe?
1 Like
I have it talented and make use of it, but mostly as a stun and because it does look cool, even with our old graphics. It’s damage hasn’t seemed notable in a while. It could stand to actually feel on par with other damage cooldowns out there though.
2 Likes
FwF is in a terrible state right now. The damage needs to be at least doubled to be worth something and have some radical changes.
First and foremost, have it at 1.5min cd baseline, and have that AZ not only freezes the enemies, but also makes your next few Frost Strikes also proc a Glacial Advance, or add a debuff to enemies hit that increases frost/shadow damage taken by the DK.
There’s so many cool things it could do to become an actually powerful cooldown besides just sheer damage
2 Likes
You know what I think would be fun with FwF, is to treat it like Beserk in the Gaurdian Tree, and start adding functionality all over the place, and end talent that BoS replaces FwF. Would be cool to help make it core to identify, bring in BoS to central identify, and allow them to tune things appropriately.
Like FwF would be the initial damage and freeze, and BoS would just continue that breath over the RP spend. Maybe add a talent that every mob hit by FwF increases your strength or PoF 1 second. Another could be that FwF applies Razorice to all enemies hit, and stacks with every second. We could also add in RW or PoF procs while we are in the breath windows.
Personaly they need to blow up Frost and re-build as a tank, but in lieu of that.
Bring back frost tanks, but also blood leech dps.
1 Like
FwF should just be removed, use something like ERW or something to trigger Riders.
Not everything in the kit can hit hard which the same people have said basically everything in the Frost Toolkit needs to have a huge damage increase. Obliterate, Frost Strike, Glacial Advance, Howling Blast, FwF… basically everything, yet Frost isnt so far behind that it warrants all these massive buffs to everything. Not to mention the design doesnt actually make it so you can just go buff happy.
There is a reason why aoe and single target abilities are largely separated. Its just the good specs allow you to pick up both for a more all round build than having to go into either or.
Frost is basically an aoe spec and that limits single target potential. They need to get rid of basically everything doing cleave / aoe and have dedicated single target and dedicated aoe abilities. I mean the abilities are all there for them to do it. But, again, people got what they asked for and this is the outcome.