Is it me, or does it seem like Frost strike hits like a wet noodle for something that cost 30 runic power, even with the 2 talent points to increase it’s damage by 20% it still does pretty low damage.
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Yes they’ve been putting all the damage into obliterate for years apparently
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The problem is that the last two expansions people have been kicking and screaming for our builder to hit like a truck.
Now it does for 2H frost so our spender can’t feel as impactful. RP for 2H frost is just a way to regain resources or proc KM.
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So am I playing it backwards then? Or the whole premise of that seems backward, shouldn’t your spenders do more damage than your builders? Outside of killing machine procs Obliterate hits for crap damage. How long has Frost Strike been like this, I seem to remember it did okay damage in Legion?
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You’re not.
It is.
They should, but some people like to believe that somehow Killing Machine “changes” Obliterate from being a builder to a spender (it doesn’t) and that makes it acceptable for Obliterate to have a 4x damage swing locked behind an “RNG proc” that you basically have up for 80% of your Obliterates.
A while. At least since Shadowlands, possibly earlier in BFA, but after Legion is basically when the “Frost Strike shouldn’t hit hard, Obliterate should hit hard” feedback really starting coming out full force & being acted on.
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I wasn’t around when this happened. But from what I saw people were super attached to the name “obliterate”. That you should obliterate your enemy when you used it. Sounds like all they needed to do was swap the names of frost strike and obliterate so FS was the 2 rune builder and obliterate is the RP spender that trucks. Does seem strange how the builder/spender mechanic works ATM. Would be cool if they relooked at how this spec works. Such a massive reliance on km seems crazy. I just want to keep 2h as a hard hitting spec, and not be forced to DW to play competitively.
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I feel like they’re both spenders though
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You can feel that way for sure, but just understand that they’re not. I know players in general like to say DKs are different because they have two resources, but they’re really not that different from a builder/spender playstyle that almost every other spec uses.
When you start the fight, which abilities can you use? You can’t use FS or GA since you have no RP and can only use rune abilities - Oblit, RW, HB - your builders. Runes going on CD is effectively the same as pressing Blade of Justice and waiting for its CD, or having to wait on energy/fury/rage generation, and FS/GA/BoS having a chance to regenerate a rune is the same acceleration as Sub generating energy on spender use, Outlaw generating a combo point, Enhancement resetting Stormstrike’s CD, Arms getting a Tactician reset, etc.
Also, given the design of the melee trees in general, it’s pretty clear that rune abilities are builders and RP abilities are spenders. The rune abilities have a ton of nodes that affect them (just like every other melee having more nodes for their builders) and a minimal amount that affect the spenders.
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I feel like it’s really bad gameplay/class design if you have to rely on a proc to do decent damage. It sucks sitting there waiting for a KM proc so I don’t feel like I just wasted 2 runes…
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Obliterate was hitting harder than Frost Strike in Wrath. Right now, if we dont use Northrend Beasts because you get a massive damage boost. Obliterate is doing around 25k crits while Frost Strike is doing around 17k crits. But they make up about the same % overall.
The average Obliterate hit is 7.7k while the average Frost Strike hit is 6k. Compare that difference to what Obliterate and Frost Strike is now. 158k Average hit for Obliterate vs 67k for Frost Strike. That is a massive difference. In wrath people are getting more Frost Strikes than Obliterates which is why Frost Strike pulls like .4% overall damage ahead of Obliterate unlike right now where Obliterate makes up 31% more overall damage at 43% while Frost Strike is at 12%. Thats a massive difference.
Frostreaper, and the massive amount of KM procs is leading to the rest of the kit being bad.
This whole Obliterate hitting hard thing is rooted in Wrath (with DW) and later in WoD with 2h but was being yelled about in BFA (mid to late BFA) when people had the nonsensical argumen that 2h always hit harder than DW. 2h was hitting harder than DW in WoD after Nerves of Cold Steel was removed in Mists, and MotFW was double dipping in WoD.
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Crazy thing is oblit and fs both hit hard back in the day
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Yup, Dont see the problem with that nowadays but the developers are just so out of touch
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And Rime was hitting harder than both of those. It’s an apples-oranges comparison. Completely different design philosophies.
Less resource generation and rune types allowed abilities to be more powerful overall since it required some tangible investment towards those stronger hits.
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But it felt better. Mortal strike is still a better oblit on a short cd and feels good. Oblit having a short cd to be chunky would be cool too.
Rime should also be generating rp baseline to smooth out the spec. Frost just feels awful to play sometimes because it’s too fast to hit hard and too slow to have good sustained damage.
What it really needs most is more defensive potential though.
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Because you have to build it up. 2 Overpower buffs, Colossal/Warbreaker, Mastery debuff, and Executioner’s Precision are all things that you, the player, have to build off of to get a massive Mortal Strike. Frost doesn’t have any of that outside of Pillar ramping and even then, it’s not that involved and just incredibly passive ramping.
Obliterate being a hard hitter with a CD, with KM resetting the CD and Frostreaper making it Frost damage (and having no guaranteed crit) with something like Runestrike/Blood Strike/Icy Touch being the spammable builder would do wonders for adding a little complexity to the spec and return some much needed breathing room to the damage profile.
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Glad we can agree
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Except it wasnt and isnt unless you are talking about prior to 3.2 where Howling Blast got 100% increased damage with FF being on the target. Other than that its doing about as much as a Frost Strike. Obliterate scaled, Frost Strike and Howling Blast didnt because of Armor Pen so its just going to get stronger going into ICC.
But the point being is that Obliterate was hitting hard, harder than the “spender” so this isnt some new concept. It just went WAY too far because of the crowd in BFA that spread a bunch of lies and then quit when things didnt play out like they thought it would.
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Frost is a joke. Stop trying to balance our class around pvp.
Lmao
You’re one funny dude
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Devs should swap FS and oblit as an April fools joke… then just never change it. Oblit is fine, it’s good having all your damage tied to a singular ability!
/s
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