Hey blizz, just wanted to add another post to the general concensis of us BoS DK’s.
In Mythic+ when we pop breath on a pack it feels pretty good however it doesnt feel the reward factor that was ment to be with this talent choice. You may pull the same as what other classes can do. ww monk, rogue, hunter ect. Then once breath is over, our damage suffers way too much. we are lucky to beat a tanks dps until breath is back up again.
What happend to risk verses reward if the spec is played well? Now it feels like you can play perfect and its risk vs keep up sometimes with everyone else.
Yes we could go Obliteration instead. however it still lacks the aoe that other classes can do. Our 2 target cleave felt great in shadowlands with Deaths Due and nightfae covenant. But now it feels really really really bad.
Please fix this so it feels fun to play. Single target or raiding i have found no issues. Its just Mythic Plus. Running our guild group we have done for years and now im holding the team back because at 400 ilvl i still can only manage 48- 49k dps overall compared to other classes pushing 60- 70 -80k ( except AA because of the lasher pull)
Ya sadly both frost and unholy are reliant on tanks doing big pulls in m+ which is not always doable.
Frost also requires chain pulling which you can’t do every week.
With infinite breath for frost being the play in raid I wonder what would happen if they just made breath a 1 min cd?
That way if the tank doesn’t chain pull it’s not a feels bad moment and with breaths lasting over two mins with AMS and amz RP gains in raid would having a second charge really buff it that much?
Just a thought.
I’d also like them to add the 4 set effect from sepulcher to obliteration as a passive. That build needs some help in aoe…
Tanks pull around the big CDs all the time. This is your risk vs reward when playing BoS. Great in an organized group that can work with you, poo in PuGs
Either I’ve been playing meta classes the last 9 years or I haven’t run into it much in the past… Oh wait I’ve played a paladin for 9 years as a main… Prot as well, which was solid in most expacs anyway.
Guess I’m making a monk again. People and their dumb meta gaming :3
I fully understand. Trust me I play a Feral Druid for 3 expansions now lol.
WW I can understand them. Their abilities are great in AoE scenarios and they usually lack in ST. Haven’t tried them this expansion yet so not sure how they do in that scenario. And I don’t mind them being higher up. They’re fairly easy to play and straight forward, but missing or messing up CDs can leave WW lacking too.
And I understand how nice it is when BoS gets popped in a big pull and you’re able to carry it out for the duration of the pull. But trying to buff BoS will leave Oblit even further behind and you’ve gotta try to keep them comparable. And buffing Oblit is just going to buff BoS. And I think that’s the issue with Frost DKs balancing overall.
Buddy this has literally nothing to do with 2h. This is entirely and solely on Blizzard’s devs. None of us players asked Blizzard to take all the power out of our rotational abilities and cram it into Pillar and Breath windows. That was their doing, not ours.
DK has the tools to do excellent and consistent AoE damage, but the numbers are all crammed into our CD windows. But they both suffer from being balanced around huge stacking debuffs on the target which cannot be quickly applied. Razorice for Frost and Death Rot + Festering Wounds for Unholy. They wont do anything with Unholy due to Unholy’s ability to essentially ignore cleave caps and scale infinitely as you add more and more mobs to the pull. I don’t think any other class can do that like Unholy can.
Frost in particular should do very well without having to be pulled around but they dont because of a few MAJOR design/balance issues,
Frostscythe simply doesn’t do enough damage considering its supposed to replace Obliterate in AoE. But as it stands, unless you’re hitting like 5-6 mobs, its not worth casting
Remorseless Winter simply doesn’t do enough damage even with the 2 supporting talents. It needs to apply Razorice or something beneficial instead of just being a weak DoT
Glacial Advance does piss poor damage and doesn’t synergize with any other Frost talents. It does more damage than Frost Strike if you’re hitting 3+ mobs, but still not good damage
Obliterate only doing Frost damage with KM procs means that our DnD cleave is garbage tier unless we use it during a Pillar Window but it only lasts 10 seconds. So we get like…3-4 hits in. Obliterate just needs to do Frost damage all the time at this point. Hell, make that part of the Obliteration talent
Frostwyrms Fury’s CD is obnoxiously long for how much damage it does. Even with the additional talent. The base CD needs to be like 1min with the talent taking off like 20 seconds
Edit : I see I have my own little fan club. Hilarious how the only two people I have on ignore on here are the ones who follow me around and reply to everything I post even though I’ve told them both multiple times that they’re on ignore. Yelling into the void must be their favorite hobby.
Except ability damage isnt crammed into pillar and BoS windows, its crammed into things like Rime, Shattering Strikes and Frostreaper.
Frostscythe died because of Frostreaper (KM rank 2). With Cleaving Strikes you need double the target cap for Frostscythe to be good (with KM procs). If there isnt a KM proc Frostscythe should be worth it because it will be critting on multiple enemies while Obliterate will do noodle damage (thanks playerbase for the KM rank 2 suggestion) if no KM procs.
RI is also already applied by enough things RW doesnt need to apply it also. RW is around 10-15% of peoples damage which puts it around the 4th highest damaging ability.
Obliterate doing frost damage 100% of the time would bring another nerf to it. And congrats you want it to be Frost Strike, we already have Frost Strike.
Can you show where the playerbase is resposible for KM R2? I’ve seen a lot of good (and bad ideas) completely ignored by the devs, and they haven’t listened to feedback in about a decade. I’m reaaly interested to see the one suggestion they’ve taken from us.
Responsible is definitely a huge leap, because they aren’t directly responsible. The overwhelming feedback from Legion into BFA was that Obliterate didn’t feelt like a “spender” or “big hitter” (which was more-or-less Frost Strike’s position in Legion) and that feedback was later incorporated into putting more power into Obliterate through KM.
Just to clarify, it beats out Frost Strike immediately at 2 targets, which, given its low damage, shows how poor runic power spenders are in generic for Frost.
That’s definitely a little too powerful with the current AZ, but a lower base CD + AZ, with AZ swapping the lower CD for Icecap synergy would be a huge boost to the kit.
It is a waste of design space but it’s one talent, and putting the blame of Frost’s current state on people that want to LARP Arthas, and not those who consistently provided weekly feedback during Legion & BFA that Obliterate didn’t do enough damage and Frost Strike & Howling Blast did too much, is disingenuous and just scapegoating.
No one forcing you to play two hander. You don’t even need to put a talent into it?
I’m sticking with two hander because my play style. Just blizzard could’ve made a sub tab in frost one for dual wield and then two hander. So that way when selecting dw you get different talent tree that associated with picking dual wield.
If picked two hand then the sub tree will go to two hander trees that you can build base on that. I mean. There’s more creative ways to do and being a game developer doesn’t have a clue when people been giving ideas etc. I mean it’s not hard to do.
But it is what it is. Until they wise up on better ideas. Which I’m hoping. But some talents have some bugs in. Such as bonegrinder as of lately it’s been not consuming even when having five stacks to give the proc for increase frost.
It was a suggestion by the playerbase in SL beta because Obliterate didnt “scale” with mastery. KM rank 2 was the suggestion, Blizzard used it, and then people complained that Obliterate was nerfed because of the change. It killed Frostscythe in terms of KM use which hurt the AoE as well as other changes like target caps.
I dont feel like going through all the forums to find the suggestion that multiple people liked then complained about because people forgot about balance.
I’ve been enjoying some 2H Obliteration in keys lately. Don’t think it does quite as well as Unholy but still really satisfying to get those big crits. Double 240k Oblit crit feels pretty good.
I do around 60-70k overall in the dungeons I’ve played. Jade Temple, SBG and HoV so far
There is no rhyme or reason to it. They have listened to well put information and they have listened to people who just flat out lie and call people names.
I guess if its something they can easily balance they might do it. KM rank 2 was something like that since they nerfed Obliterate once and havent really touched it since. So it looks like it is easy to balance even though it was detrimental to the spec overall leading to dead talents.