that’s how I feel queueing into aff lock and mm hunters, especially if they have a preservation evoker or disc on team. Good unholy dks make my life miserable as well.
Look, I agree with most of the things you’re saying about other classes being strong and most things are not truly unplayable, but frost mage is absolutely S tier and every bit as good -if not better- than most other all the other specs you listed.
Normally broxikor takes are overly dramatic, but I think he’s actuay right on this one. Even in a 2v2 or 3v3 scenario, a mage team should never ever lose to a team with a warrior (or most melee), because the mage is never a viable kill target and, frost especially, has peels to keep any other teammate alive as well.
This take is just as bad as when ret paladins say, “fReEdoM iS pURgeAbLE”.
There are literally dozens of trash buffs in the game that every class and comp can apply and functional purge mana costs have gone up significantly relative to dps mana pools.
Most comps really don’t have an answer to alter; not in practical settings.
That being said, alter should be 4s and unpurgeable in pvp.
Agree to disagree on the mage op stuff, but we might just have different definitions of what constitutes S tier vs A tier, and again, warrior complaining about mages imo is no different than me complaining about several other specs [e.g., a frost mage should never lose to a team with a mm hunter, an affliction lock, arguably others]. If we want to talk about making warriors more viable against mages, then the street goes both ways [e.g., mages are just as weak into other specs].
I strongly agree with this, though I would say 5 seconds. Let’s not aim to make alter so short that it’s useless or largely ignored 
I’m kind of surprised Blizzard hasn’t made this change yet. 10s is absurdly long against specs that can’t purge it, no question about it, and that’s coming from a mage player.
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I watched Whazz play WP/Pres and win 30 games in a row and Que into WM/Pres with a frost mage and lose in 2 minutes.
Is whazz bad too ?
Sure! I think that’s a fair place for it.
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If mage frost is S tier the second best spec is B tier. The discrepancy is crazy.
It’s S tier btw
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Unbiased take. I think frost is strong and def needs some tuning with the other overperforming specs.
That said in WoW terms the difference between S tier and even a B tier spec might as well feel like expansions apart.
You don’t play B tier specs into S+ stuff and go “Gee that was a really close game guys!”
You say “wowow thats so 4@#$@$@$@24 stupid jesus what is blizzard doing nerf that crap, hes like an overgrown 1500 playing rolling his face on the keyboard and u cant even outplay it lmao so dumb”
But i think all S tier should honestly be nerfed to A tier, pretty heavy blows and blizzard should be aiming to elevate all specs to atleast A tier.
Nothing should be so silly overtuned and glaringly obvious to even the untrained eye. Thats a good sign it needs to be dealt with in a hotfix. Not permitted to run rampant for months on end and allow the meta to stagnate and drive people away.
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Go play a frost mage then. Queue into an MM or aff. Come back and tell us of your research. 
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I would do anything to make alter unpurgable. It honestly feels awful to have a high value defensive just booped off.
What other defensive ability can just be purged? Both block and alter can just be toasted.
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My fellow mage fam. While I do enjoy trolling warriors a bit do understand that everyone knows mm/aff is overperforming along with DKs and other specs.
You sort of have to divorce yourself from your class on forums and see it rationally. Not take it personally and resort to whataboutisms. Be better! Frost is just as silly as those other specs right now.
Perfect example of why frost is overperforming. Frost wastes alter i fake a CS. Send arcane surge/magi what is typically a “uh oh i messed up moment”. Instead he pops veins and orb and machine guns lances into me an attempt to kill me through precog and surge cast. Can outdmg me global for global on burst and force me to play completely scared in a window where a precog surge is being sent out and I’m safe to get my damage out without stops.
Its literally like affys rn. Affy misses kick, gets kicked. Instantly pops wall/pact and pves you to the ground after the cs end on your damage window. Its like being rewarded for playing so poorly you should be worried but your so overtuned you can slam your face on keyboard and stat check your opponent and loudly proclaim “OUTPLAYED!!!” “XD”
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Bop is the only real one, but also alter and block are significantly stronger than other defensives.
If this is happening, though, you’re using them incorrectly.
I think everyone agrees except high-end mage players because they recognize how broken alter is. Even with it being purgeable, its basically 10s of functional immunity assuming youre using it correctly.
THAT BEING SAID, when you have 8 buffs between ai/fort/procs/hots/shields/alter and they get alter with a single purge because you lost a 12.5% roll, that feels TERRIBLE.
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As a Warrior I’ve only been able to beat Frost Mages as Prot/Colossus, Shield Charge/Demolish is strong against them
My point is that mages are supposed to counter warriors and MM hunters do the same to mages.
And yeah no…Frost is not as op as aff. Not even close. I’ve been playing my mage lately and it’s been frustrating but I queue on my aff and can sleep at the wheel. Literally forgot to put my PvP gear on at first and was still just PvE’ing people down.
They’re not even close. Not from my perspective. The skill floor and ceiling on mage is far different than aff lock even if it’s not overtuned. My defensives on lock can’t be purged or dispelled.
Soul burn lock cookie can heal for just as much overall if you factor in alter being dispelled. Sure block prevents all dam but you also can’t move or do anything. Cocoon is just as good as block in terms of preventing go’s and big damage. Pally bubble is better since you can still move and attack even though it can be dispelled too.
Turtle is great even though dots aren’t removed. At least you can still move.
Yes the banter about class counter is easily dismissed as what it is. What is not dismissible is that frost, like mm/affy/fury/dk is clearly overperforming and in need of adjustments.
Damage wise foremost but defensively some things need a deeper examination. For example the 7 second cloak of shadows, How short DK ams CD is. The new lock 1 minute healthstone in combat… Frosts shield value is also a consideration with the uptime it allows vs melee.
Tuning the duration and power of defensives is a much more intricate process not quickly done.
What is clear number wise these specs are really overperforming above the rest and need adjustments.
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How do you use it correctly?
Different defensives do different things, but youre really underselling how block works here. Sure, there’s a tradeoff where you cant move or do damage, but you CAN NOT DIE when you use it. Yes, it has a long cd, but you can negate an entire set of cds with proper usage, allow your healer time to get out of cc, AND be on DR allowing you to counterpressure with impunity for 20 seconds.
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For sure for sure. Unless you’re playing against a priest. 
Its all a gamble rly. So here listen.
2 ways this plays out.
- You pre alter a go and dip LOS and ride it out and avoid the purge spam.
- You pre alter a go and cackle gleefully and hop around machine gunning lances into them.
One component on part 2 is, the priest wastes 5 globals and gets nothing and is now behind on healing. That entire time you can choose to gamble each sound of purge, rebuff int, reshield (frostfire gives 2) or simply rewind.
Myself? My decision to gamble typically leans on how big of an alter is it, what my current health is, how close are they to dying and how many more globals can i milk?
I will often swoosh all the priest junk buffs off a DPS while they spam purge if I wanna play the roulette a little longer. Its all decision based and really a skill manuever.
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