Frost Mage so clunky

The point of this is to post my findings and get feedback from anyone who can relate or can help me understand what I’m missing from the basic Frost mage single target playstyle.

Maybe it’s because I’m used to Fire and Arcane, but I’m learning Frost and I’m stumped by the clunky rotation.

As I understand it, the basic rotation is Frostbolt until Fingers of Frost > Ice Lance, or until Brain Freeze > Flurry > Ice Lance twice. I understand it, but I don’t get it: it’s like the designers couldn’t determine which way procs should go and the rotation suffers from a lack of momentum and satisfying chaining of abilities.

The first issue is that it’s jarring to have a global cooldown between every action. With Fire, the basic single target rotation starts slow until heating up procs. Then Fire Blast/Pyro comes and goes smoothly. During Combustion, abilities can go much faster and feel even more effective. It feels quick, responsive and impactful.

With Arcane the single target “rotation” starts slow – really it’s just Arcane Blast until 4 arcane charges, then Arcane Blasts feel much faster, much more powerful and satisfying. And during an Arcane Power window, the abilities feel fast, powerful and smooth.

With Frost, there’s a global cooldown between each ability regardless. Abilities proc and you never get the feeling that there’s a release to the build up – it’s about as satisfying as spamming Fireball with no heating up procs or spamming Arcane Blast and getting no arcane charges.

Frost’s “power window” (unsure of the technical term) is Icy Veins 20 sec 30% haste buff, which would be more adequately titled “‘I’m sorry,’ - the designers”. Instead of adding a cool, powerful, compelling dynamic to the rotation (as referenced above: Fire’s Combust everything crits for smooth, fast, bigger damage, or Arcane Power’s mana dump for smooth, fast, bigger damage) it is as though Icy Veins sole purpose is to bandaid some haste on the basic rotation to make it bearable for a little while.

Unless you’re looking directly at your abilities or animations, the lack of impactful sound effects/visuals in the regular rotation doesn’t seem to give enough feedback (from my perspective) to let the player know that the procs and resulting proc’d abilities are enhanced and performing as they should or even better than normal. Regardless of procs, playing this spec makes me feel as though I’m making my opponents cold, wet and uncomfortable. The sound effects could have been recorded from snow gently falling off a roof and piling slightly on a back patio in a peaceful neighborhood, or tapping small icicles from a gutter and admiring how they fall into the snow where they are forever ignored. Like my damage.

It’s possible my struggle with this is due to lack of immediate feedback from abilities as half the rotation is spamming during GCD – which consequently results in other procs during GCD and wasting a Fingers of Frost proc because you were spamming Flurry during a Brain Freeze proc. Procs can overlap and a Fingers of Frost proc uses up a Winter’s Chill proc and vice versa, making the player feel like procs are going to waste.

This is somewhat addressed in Icy Veins’ section on Frost Mage Rotation, under Proc Management, describing the situation as “unfortunate,” which is the first time I’ve read a guide in memory that has more or less resolved itself to disappointment in design.

So, that’s my take.

My question to the frost mages here is to ask you to share what you find satisfying about the spec and how you make it comfortable and effective for yourself. I’m here to learn and I’m committed to getting better, but it feels like I’m missing something. Thanks in advance.

Edit: I’m sorry for the large block of text and rambly nature of my writing. I’ve attempted a few times to consolidate the ideas into something easier to read, and too much caffeine is making that difficult.

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This is because in Legion Alpha, brain freeze interacted with Frozen Orb and at the last minute they added Flurry and had brain freeze interact with that. So since legion (4 years ago) we have had the issue of proc munching that is still here and feels bad/clunky.

Also the current frost mage mastery is completely non interactive and causes weird scaling issues like the No Ice Lance build at the end of BFA. The same thing can be said about Icy Veins.

As someone that has played Frost Mage since Wotlk, the spec isn’t in the best place mechanically. Fixes would require the old frost mage mastery (+dmg to frozen targets), change flurry to a charge based system, to remove proc munching, and make icy veins interact with the spec in some way.

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This is my first time giving frost a shot so I don’t quite get the references to previous builds, but your suggestions seem like they’d make the spec make a lot more sense.

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The first issue is that it’s jarring to have a global cooldown between every action.

Isn’t this a benefit? It means you always have the ability to tail your hard casts with an instant. Ice Lance and Flurry fit that role. Maybe it’s because I come from the old ways of WoW, but it just feels more organic to have a rotation over the irregular whack-a-mole style of fire. If you play it right, all GCDs should feel non-existent.

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Only complaint I have about frost so far is an old one: proc munching.

I ran Frozen Touch instead of Chain Reaction. At least half of my flurries munched a FoF proc. It was maddening!

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Maybe I’m not playing it right? Hardcasts still have the GCD after them, making me have to wait to perform that instant. There could be a sense of flow and smoothness, but it is disrupted by the GCD being there with a forced pause when I’m trying to cast procs.

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The only “hardcast” in the TV build is Frostbolt, though, right? The GCD should be over by the time Frostbolt finishes casting, so you can immediately follow it with Ice Lance or Flurry if you have a proc to spend. You’ll run into the GCD on the double Lance after Flurry and also after Frozen Orb, but you shouldn’t be hitting it after Frostbolt. Yeah you still have to wait until Frostbolt goes off, unlike Fire Blast which can be cast during Fireball, but that’s not due to the GCD. That’s just Frostbolt’s inherent cast time. Maybe that’s what you’re saying?

I hear you though, and I think Fire is going to have some of that “clunkiness” too now from Phoenix Flames/Scorch being part of the Combustion rotation once Hyperthreads are out of the picture. Probably that’s as intended since I think the Hyperthreads being an integral part of BFA Fire was a complete accident, but still.

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From what I’ve gathered playing frost so far it doesn’t seem to clunky to me, but this is from a pvp perspective. Frostbolt until brainfreeze then ice Lance x2 doesn’t feel like I’m stuck in any gcd’s

Yeah I can understand that and see that happening, that’s why you don’t run that talent lol…

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With the nerf to Vision of Perfection, I’m gonna stick with Arcane till SL anyway.

I was excited to go back to Thermal Void build but ya know Bliz: fun detected, fun removed.

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I prefer to play frost. I like how its solid in every piece of content but fire is very enjoyable too except I feel with fire you are only good in your CDs and of course its quite stat dependent.

This is unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on one’s viewpoint) how the spec works. Unlike its Fire and Arcane counterparts Frost has no real “moment of glory burst” in its rotation. It’s just consistent output, but it’s actually a very good spec at that particular thing. This also makes it somewhat safer and less forgiving of mistakes. The GCD issue gets better as you scale Haste. Proc munching is basically the story of the spec.

What you listed as your rotation is pretty much how the spec works, and I assume you are using Orb on cooldown as well. It’s very whack-a-proc. The only thing you want to commit to memory is to always use a cast time spell (Frostbolt) before you launch your Brain Freeze Flurry and try to launch the Brain Freeze Flurry with 0 FoFs on you (this isn’t always possible though)

Icy Veins is a pretty lackluster DPS cooldown, for sure. Can’t comment much on it other than hoping that the mage representation on beta forums points it out.

But it good news it seems to perform well with the legendaries in SL, at least on sims. Given how most mages are seeing this and gravitating towards the spec, you can assume it’ll be in heavy use early on in the expansion until either it gets nerfed or arcane and fire just out scale it; they always scale better because Frost always needs RNG for procs regardless how good your gear is.

Unfortunately, for high-end competitive players sometimes you can’t play what you enjoy. But if you’re a casual I don’t think your spec will matter all too much earlier in SL. Pre patch is an absolute mess in terms of balance though, if you just want to go crazy roll a Shadow Priest and just win.

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Feels nice to me except the proc munching.

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Also forgot to add, given how many procs you’re dealing with as Frost, you might want to make adjustments to your spell queue window. WoW’s default settings put it at 400 ms.

That’s actually going to get clunky if your ping is rather low. You ideally want the spell queue window to be just slightly higher than your world ping. Say if your ping is 60, you’d want it at like 100, not 400.

You’ll see much of an improvement if this adjustment is made because you can always change your casts incase you get both FoF and BF together off a single Frostbolt; you’d want to prioritize the FoF use over the BF use.

The crazy thing is that blizzard can add +dmg to frozen targets and keep icicles in the mastery. Arms warrior mastery did that exact thing with deep wounds + making abilities hit harder. Also if they just made it where hitting a winter chilled target with ice lance proc up it refunds the proc or deals 20-50% more damage. Don’t know if that’s possible though.

Another workaround could be to make it so that FoF treats the target as if it were Frozen for Shatter and adds additional damage as well, so firing a FoF-IL into Winter’s Chill will not be a total munch.

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I actually find fire to be far and away the clumsiest of the three specs. The AOE rotation is just plain bad, and the ‘fishing for crits’ single target play is really tired compared to a lot of updated builds. I really think fire was overall in a better place during Legion.

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So I’ve played this game for years - over a decade. I’ve played every caster spec their is over the years. Sometimes casually, sometimes competitively. That being said…

Frost feels awesome. Don’t touch it.

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Proc munching is the only thing that needs attention. The above suggestion sounds like it might work – casting FoF IL on a target with WC grants FoF.

EDIT: Mmm, but then I suppose splitting ice could be a problem. Casting a FoF IL on a WC’ed target might be munching the FoF proc for that target, but you still get the benefit of FoF on any cleaved targets.

It just depends what you like.

I far prefer frost over fire, as I don’t enjoy playing a meme spec where literally 80% of your damage is from your combust window. 10 secs of glory every 2 mins, no thx, it’s like signing up to always prematurely…cough. Some people don’t want to be a 2 minute wonder.

I love it that icy veins speeds up the rotation and provides a nice dps boost - but not so much that they have to nerf our sustain. I’d rather always do nice consistent damage. You can’t have massive CD’s and consistent damage.

The only problem with frost is all the proc munching we do. In Sloots class interview with the 3 mage community reps, they all detailed exactly how easy it is to fix this. Just put brain freeze flurry on a charge/cd system and rework the mastery.

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