Frost mage need buff bring Deep Freeze back

PVP Arenas
1

Blizzard, please.

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Lol good one

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What do you need deep freeze for? You just cast an irrelevant sheep, get kicked, then sheep the target that would otherwise be deeped because of your immunity trinket. And if you’re trying to deep a kill target, no reason to, you just keep frostbolting them and they can’t move

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Yeah I think I’m gonna pass on helping frost mages solo stunlock someone while they pump .5 second 30k frostbolts into them.

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Frost mage and Demo locks are both cringe specs. Their damage breakdown is BEYOND stupid. Imagine ONE ability being 60-70% of your damage. What a joke. Both of these specs need a complete redesign.

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Lol imagine frost with deep rn, shxt would be terrorism

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Mages spent like the past decade begging for damage to be tied back into frostbolt.

Think you’re out of luck on that one.

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Deep Freeze with a nerf to some damage would be fine. Definitely not in it’s current state.

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I’m no class dev. But do you think reverting to cata-early mop mastery & removing stuff like ice form would be a good direction?

If they put some of frostbolts damage source into mastery it might help change weights, so less 0.5 second frostbolts for example, or more 0.5’s but they hit less hard, because ofc you’ll have less mastery. No? Idk. In my head that works but it might end up being insane like it was early mop.

Then make icicles baseline or a talent you can pick or something. idk.

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anything that reminds me of cata mage makes me want to neck myself
no thanks

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what didn’t you like about cata mage, apart from it not being wotlk mage which is ofc best mage.

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I can’t think of a time when mages have been bad. They always have RMX, at least one spec is S-tier, a second at least A-B Tier, and the 3rd can be hot dumpster fire.

I literally can’t say the same for any other class.

Frost doesn’t need deep freeze back. DB should be removed from fire mage.

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Rogue but that’s a given.

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Thaaaaat’s because they never have been bad afaik.

RMX hasn’t always been mages easiest comp tbf. I’m not arguing that they’ve never been bad though.


priest? maybe? except maybe early cata or something idr. I think it’s always been viable. If not disc then at least shadow. Also druid, I guess? I think druid, mostly resto, has had almost as consistent seasons as mage. Rogue comes close too I guess? Rogue was kinda rough in early MoP.

Nobody touches mage though ofc.

Can’t agree here completely. I’d rather see frost mage designed in a healthy way where it can have deep freeze and not be oppressive, than see vanilla level of class design being the 2022 representation of frost mage in arena.

How did we ever survive mop when they had frostjaw, pom, alter, deep, and db? Maybe it’s because we all had the tools? Idk.

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Deep Freeze could be a good addition in 10.0.
There, “Kel’Thuzad v 0.5” ability would be gone and the playstyle “wanna be Destro with Bane of Havoc, but every 3 min” would be gone as well. Moreover, Frost Mage would lose lots of power in PVE as well as Icy Propulsion conduit will be gone as well.

Then it is a good time to make a decent redesign for this spec and include Deep Freeze in it.

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This really belongs in the same answer as


Cata and MoP felt like the tools were there for all specs to deal with the completeness of classes. Since the great pruning of Legion, a vast majority of specs feel incomplete. Even when at full borrowed power, with a couple of exceptions. I would say mage and shadow priest are probably the most complete classes.
I hear from frost mages that they want to be able to setup their own polys so they need deep freeze back.

It’s completely laughable to me. As ENH I don’t have a reliable stun, if I do get it off, it’s half the duration of any other stun. I don’t have a spamable cc, nor do I have a way to get it off either. I could really use a reliable stun and a root back.

So in a way I agree with you. If you give me the completeness that specs should have and once did, then sure frost mages can deep freeze back. Unfortunately blizz just goes deeper and deeper into the borrowed power rabbit hole instead of learning from that mistake. So I don’t see that happening until there’s a leadership change and even that’s a maybe.

Until then though, they should be just as incomplete as the rest of the specs, and so should fire mage. So remove DB as well.

The rest of your comments I agree with.

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frost is the most boring 1 dimensional spec in the game, you’re either standing still mashing frostbolt for medium damage or running in circles while ur partner plays the game

the spec needs a rework to incorporate having a stun back in its kit. highly doubt it will happen though, especially if frost is doing well in raids

also i heard a rumor everytime u type ‘rogue mage never bad’ followed up by an impassioned nerf suggestion ur iq goes up 10 points

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Mage is really strong in a rated teambased setting, but it feels not well designed outside of that. Might be an unpopular opinion, but Xaryu’s been arguing this since Legion.

  1. Not having stuns made mages too reliant on their teammates for landing kills because stuns are so important in this game.

  2. Mages are just designed poorly at least with pvp in mind.

  • Legion reworks turned Frost into a dampener spec. Only recently with frostbolt buffs are they doing really good damage, but they are generally still limited to mainly playing double wizard comps.
  • Fire is too centered around Combustion and lacks any throughput outside of it. It’s why RMP is consistently their best comp and why it can be so annoying to face. Similar to how current Sub is designed, its just run run run until cds and dr’s are up, then kill you with triple cross cc and stun on kill target.
  1. Outside of arenas mage just isn’t very fun. Frost’s playstyle doesn’t mesh well with dueling or bgs. Fire is the same way, and not doing much damage outside of Combustion windows isn’t very fun tbh.

I think bringing Deep Freeze back as a PvP talent and compensating with some minor damage nerfs would go a long way into bring Frost Mage into the spotlight again. Nerfing Combustion and increasing the damage of Fireball/Fireblast/Pyro outside of those Combustion windows would balance fire out imo.

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To some extent you are right, for example about many classes feeling incomplete, especially without borrowed powers. However, the approach “my spec is not good, so other specs should not be as well” is bad. If Blizzard followed that logic, they would need to nerf all specs to the level of Arcane Mages in PVP as “if they are at this level, others should be as well”. This is not a good approach.

A better approach is to just work on base classes and their talents and start with the most incomplete / underpowered / underrepresented. MW is considered lowest tier healer in PVP? Give it PVP only buffs / new PVP talents. Enhance Shaman has limited comp options in arenas? Give them more tools as PVP talents to be better compatible with other specs. Arcane Mages are almost extinct in arenas? Buff them. Frost Mages “design” will fall apart in 10.0 where Necrolord covenant (for PVP) and Icy Propulsion conduit (for PVE) will be gone? Redesign them there.

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Hardly anyone plays Ice Form anymore. It’s p-much not played for the most part now that Icy Veins isn’t purgeable. When you play Ice Form you also don’t get the sweeet sweeet IV buff to your haste.

As to the OP, while it would be awesome it won’t happen this expansion. Frost is already strong as heck right now. It doesn’t need Deep Freeze. The only way I could see Deep Freeze being ok at the moment is if they put it on the same tier as Lonely Winter (and I say that with the intent that Lonely Winter should be further down the tier and not a 1st tier pick) so that you have to choose between big Frostbolt damage and having a stun. You can’t have both. That would be toxic, and Frost is already getting to that point lol.