Frost mage into Shadowlands

Frost

“With the addition of Mirror Images and Alter Time, Frost Mages will have some cool new abilities to weave into their gameplay. One of the more noticeable changes to Frost Mages in Shadowlands is the update to Flurry’s Winter’s Chill debuff . Previously Winter’s Chill was tied to Flurry’s movement speed debuff, which created tight windows and required distance checks to achieve the maximum-damage bonuses. Moving into Shadowlands, Winter’s Chill is now a much longer debuff that causes Frost Mages’ next two spells to treat the target as frozen, a debuff that increases the critical hit chance from the Frost Mage and their allies against the target”

Never too early for feedback, right!? I will cut straight to the chase: The distance checks add a value to frost that ‘attempting’ to eliminate double lancing took away, an increased skill cap, particularly during progression. Weaving in and out of melee during mechanics that require stacking is difficult, but necessary, to maximize damage output with frost. Positioning is always on your mind, planning your shimmers, adjusting your rotation if there is no way to step out of melee…all these things added flavor to frost. A big reason why such a large core group only plays this spec (call us noobs if you want).

HOWEVER, let’s not beat around the bush with how frustrating it is having such a weird requirement to maximize damage. Everyone’s range check relates back to your haste values, whether your moving, whether you’re using shimmer… All these combine to make a very weird gameplay experience, one that I enjoy, but I can understand the frustration of others and the inability of the game devs to be able to properly tune the spec.

I had a thought a long time ago about the core issue with frosts rotation revolving around the fact that flurry applies a short term debuff and can shatter multiple spells, leading to things like completely wasting FoF procs because you want to Fbolt–>flurry–>ice lance and the Fbolt procs another ice lance. And that’s just a single example. I had an idea that maybe turning flurry into an ability that causes your next “specific” spell to shatter (such as ice lance) and also not soaking a FoF proc (having a priority system that soaks flurry debuff before FoF), breaking any chance of NoIL builds, while also maintaining a rotational flow.

NOW, what are blizzard trying? It’s very much a mixed bag. We don’t know if the debuff will apply quick enough for rotations like glacial–>flurry–>ice lance or frostbolt–>flurry–>ice lance , BECAUSE it’s going to come down to what is the most efficient spell to shatter at any given moment. This has the opportunity to make the rotation feel MORE impactful, or less. If I just click flurry and then hit ice lance twice every time I flurry, that will make the spec feel less impactful. My hope is that this can lead to double lancing until you build up icicles and can flurryglacialice lance for some insane burst, or glacialflurryIL if flurry still hits before glacial. This spec is going to require some fooling around with before we know the overall impact, but I’m excited to get at least one change to the core gameplay. What does everyone else think? Maybe I’m totally missing something or not wording it correctly.

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Deep Freeze Pliz.

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I can guarantee you that the distance requirements have nothing to do with why frost is my favorite mage spec, even if I have been playing it less lately.

I’m assuming that Blizzard would have enough sense to have the debuff apply instantly after flurry is cast so that the glacial -> flurry -> lance rotation would remain standard (because noIL is probably dead without Flash Freeze, of course.)

I quite like that little combo but if they don’t have it apply in such a way then we may end up casting it prior to whichever spell we are trying to shatter (presumably a glacial spike followed by an ice lance or possibly a frostbolt if running the Necrolord ability) but only time will tell.

Really looking forward to fidgeting with the changes to mages that are inbound. Warriors too but this is the mage forum so… :grin:

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it’s not enough mainly for pvp because not only are most of the other specs getting significantly more than frost, therefore making it worse in comparison, but it’ll still be plagued with all the other problems it already faces in general pvp like how it has to hard cast a lot, it’s very proc relient, very cooldown heavy, has no ranged instant cast slows besides it’s aoe which only lasts for 3 secs and does crap for damage, you lack a stun, your 2 roots have to be talented into, etc etc. If they just gave us deep freeze, buffed our aoe slows back up to 8 secs like in legion, and made freezing rain base line like in legion, I think that would make us pretty good in all pvp scenarios ,not just 3v3, and we wouldn’t be constantly out shined by fire and arcane in 1v1s, 2v2s, and bgs. This wouldn’t really affect them that greatly in pve because this is mainly for control purposes so I don’t really see much harm in something like this espesially since it’s not preforming that great in pve. Maybe it would make them a little op in 3v3 but I don’t think that we should balance the game around just one game mode when it would bring more balance to all other areas of pvp. So overall I like that they’re buffing flurry and making some abilities cross-spec but that won’t be enough and I hope that more are coming.

We’d still have to see how the new Winter’s Chill is implemented because Frostbolt->Flurry->Ice Lance will still take away 2 charges since Frostbolt hits after flurry.

Nothing would change, except maybe the positional requirement.

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maybe you could use flurry then frostbolt into ice lance which would be kinda cool, not game changing in the slightest and i don’t know why they put that up there with huge game changing things like an arcane revamp but what you gonna do

If they get Deep Freeze then they will have to be nerfed in some other way.

Why shall we be nerfed if we get Deep Freeze back?, a stun with 45s cd that breaks on ice lance is not OP. It is what we need to be able to 1v1 as frost.

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thank you!!!

For IL builds it’s potentially a nerf. Does each icicle hit count as a “spell” for the purposes of the debuff stacks, or do they no longer get the damage buff? Currently, with enough icicles and a FoF proc you want to do IL > flurry > IL > frostbolt, to get more shatter damage on the icicles (rather than a frostbolt). Without a FoF proc lined up do the standard frostbolt > flurry > IL. Depending on the exact mechanics of the new WC, those could both be severely messed up.

Judging from everything else, I assume we’ll be seeing more changes to frost before the xpac drops.

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LOL you were right flurry got nerfed check it out they obviously don’t even test this stuff I swear
Even your pet can use up the winter’s chill proc

Frost is such a foreign concept to me now. Icicles and flurries. Bah humbug. Bring back my shatter combos and deep freeze. Let frostbolt do damage again. I played frost for like 10 years before they decided to ruin the spec. /Mourn OG frost

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I got a gut feeling that we might get it now since all the mage youtubers/streams are asking for it and say frost sucks

are we talking pvp or pve in this thread?

Based on my OP, mainly PVE. I don’t PVP outside of unlocking Conflict and Strife, so I didn’t discuss any specific PVP situations.

Accept that the Icicles would no longer benefit from the Shatter Debuff which means much less Sustained Damage. Shatter is the whole reason Frost mages are in a good spot. Without shatter we become Mediocre at best.

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We’re not losing shatter. And Icicle shattering is not the reason we’re doing or not doing damage.

From a PvE perspective, just my 2 cents:

Actually never understood why Frost of all specs is the most impacted by distance. It’s not like the spec blows the other two out of the water when distance is perfect. On the contrary it lags behind on single target almost always, even in perfect situations.

Frost has been - since at least Mists, probably prior - always been the spec that Blizz designs to have a kiting kit. This is great if:
a. Your target can be snared
b. You have enough distance in the environment to actually kite without pulling other stuff you don’t want to
c. The target can’t counter snare (eg: charge you, appear behind you, etc.)
d. The target does enough damage to warrant kiting it over just outright DPS-ing it down to save time.

To meet all 4 criteria is very, very rare though. Especially how the newer zones are designed (they are often too tightly packed to pull off your cleave kit)

Frost is almost always the worst at single target, and usually loses to Fire on cleave. Sure, not all raid encounters are single target - however, most do have a priority system, so having high single target output is desirable.

Currently, Frost does consistent damage, has no ramp up, doesn’t need to worry about mana, and has a great deal of versatility in its talent setup. You can pretty much have a fully passive talent tree or one which completely fills up your bars, but ultimately the spec is just about proper proc management in most builds.

But what this spec really needs, IMO is:

  • a way to deal with spread out AoE damage (nothing for this at the moment)
  • lower reliance on procs
  • cleave without talenting into it
  • better or more rewarding interaction with Water Elemental
  • less reliance on distance (Cone of Cold, Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike > Flurry, etc. all get impacted by distance)

Frost’s biggest issues are;

All Mages - our filler spell does no damage. My 470 frost mage has 8k frost bolts, yet am expected to cast 5+ to build to a Flurry/GS/IL.

RNG Procs - combined with terrible filler spell damage, most pulls typically leave being competitive in the dust. Simply put we need BF Proc protection, one should never need to cast more than 6 frost bolts to see a brain freeze.

Flurry - those 2 spells (Shadowlands) after flurry should ALWAYS crit, currently if you are not at soft crit cap (no one is) then you are going to see non crit GS’s. So combine the above two items and finally after 10 frost bolts get your BF proc, only to have your GS hit for no crit damage. Does anyone wonder why the spec is in basement on logs?

Icy Veins - what a GARBAGE cooldown compared to Fire and Arcane. Then to top it off we get charged a GCD and never saw an extension of IV to compensate! This is why Frost can’t leverage a damage window like Fire and Arcane and why RoP is useless for Frost. BTW please understand my view is RoP should be removed from the game.

All Casters - Stand to Deliver - the reward does not even come close to the cost of movement in current WoW. Corruption made it worse because those effects add additional movement further breaking the stand to deliver concept Blizzard pitches.

2 Target cleave raid bosses - umm where because Blizzard loves to make those encounters have the bosses apply a 99% damage reduction aura whenever they are within 10 yards of each other!

At those are easy fixes. Allowing stats to effect how our class plays.

Haste increases BF proc chance, Crit chance increasing damage against frozen targets above the soft cap divided by half((Crit-25%)/2), and allowing Frost Mages to get to the soft cap by at least second tier, Mastery effecting Elemental again.