Played this class for years. This is just bad. Wheres the damage? Im sure the advance you get from “top DKs” seems good to the top .01% of people but for the rest of us this is awful.
5 Likes
Which scenario are you talking about here? PvE or PvP?
More pve. I mean in pvp cool theres Ob build that you can get kills with. But lets start with pve.
BoS build that has been a thing forever now. Fine thats whatever. 2min CD and caca damage in between those 2 mins. Breath now doing 25% more damage less time. Is 25% damage enough to make it good? I dont think so for someone who does 14-18keys 402 ilvl pretty descent stats and I can keep up with the tank. Why isnt there a reduced talent? On this spell? Now that breath ends faster it just makes waiting for that 2 min mark to come up just bad.
Now lets look at the Ob build pve. Why does using a different weapon grant you a free 30% damage increase. I personally love DWing. Im stuck now(well have been for a while) but there is no point in trying ob build DW losing 30% damage.
This buff BoS got isnt game changing. It just makes this spec feel awful outside of breath more often. I’ve seen countless videos from people talking about how frost is fine and they do good damage with it, Low and behold its the top top player that min-maxes this spec perfectly. With that being said Why play a Frost dk? Fury pumps harder more often and has a less skill cap.
Now am not saying frost should be a faceroll spec. But If you have to master this class and play perfectly to just reach average numbers. What’s the point? The spec has been for me lack luster. Shadowlands s1 i think it was made the spec somewhat descent to play cause of the affix that reduced CDs.
4 Likes
Frost is flaming garbage in PvP
At least if you compare it to literally every other alternative, Because its very viable if youre a masterful dk you can push past 2400 but if you lack even the smallest bit of experience youll get trashed
Ret and Warrior are better at both dealing damage, and staying alive compared to DK, Ontop of having more utility in general
They have more defensive buttons to press and all of their self heals are more powerful than yours
Their cooldowns come back faster, Or last twice as long as yours do while simultaneously having a stronger stat increase compared to your CD
Wings: 23s duration, 1m cooldown 20% damage 20% crit 20% healing
Pillar: 12s duration, 45-1m cooldown 25% strength and Obliteration
Warbreaker/Colossus smash: 13s duration, 30-45s cooldown, 30% increased damage
Literally whats the point of choosing the weakest damage with the worst cooldown? (frost dk)
This perfectly sums up the Frost DK PvP experience as well, Triple the effort, half the reward for nearly every aspect of the spec
9 Likes
The setups are easily stoppable for sure. Im a 1800 ish player with DK so I wont pretend to be the expert on DKs in areans. I Enjoy DK arena but as you said. I just die… Deathstikes heal me for maybe 10% of my hp… I mean even when i wall they dont get off me. I end up slowing and kiting.
There is where i agree 100% I personally love frost dk. But why play 10000% perfect just to get same results as say war that is someone 5th alt makes no point. Now the dev that has been taking care of frost has been there forever. Why not post? feedback? Anything? He can come out and say this is the way it is because thats the way i like it. And i would hate him but at least lose complete hope in this class.
1 Like
For average play around 1800-2200 big time, Higher rating they just play super spread and careful to avoid any clean setups to begin with
And you shouldnt have to be an expert at DK for your class to be on fair competitive grounds with the other spec for a similar amount of effort but as it stands all of your abilities are far more inefficient for your damage and sustain than rets or warriors have to deal with
They do more sustain dps, they do more burst dps, they have stronger self heals that are much less rotationally intrusive and crippling
When you pick frost DK in pvp, You are choosing a spec that is objectively just worse off compared to ret and warrior
5 Likes
The issue I have is the people that stream saying Frost dk is fine. Both pve and pvp. I mean in the AWC ppl blew up being of a few good matches with mes. Sure there’s a video of a frost dk doing good in a M+ key. But Not everyone is a 3k rated player… or a 3k IO dk. Or these videos of ppl talking to the devs and they say DK is fine and the people they talk to say its fine. I mean how non super high, top .1% of ppl do they talk to?
At the end of the day the DK DEV is just lazy or to stubborn to listen to feed back from out sources.
3 Likes
Mes called frost mediocre
Flark is on lots of copium
pizzadawg said frost is going to die in 10.1 if serious changes wernt made
im convinced frost is boarderline good, but is just grossly inefficient (damage spenders undertuned, Self heal undertuned, To much reliance on deathstrike in general, Really boring and generally Meh honortalents, Really boring generally useless talents like inexorable assault, coldheart, horn of winter, invigorating freeze, depends heavily on rogue like setups to gain maximum pressure that other specs can do instantly without setups and continue doing more often)
4 Likes
Just to be clear, the meta Frost build on Mythic+ is 2H Obliteration. I’m excited to play it in raid this reset as well to see its new power level
1 Like
Agree OP even after the 10.0.7 improvements it feels meh. It feels like it should have in beta lol. Not months into the xpac.
I have always wanted obliterate to feel like it sounds. Hit hard AF, But doing 50%+ of our damage and having everything centered around it is a little much. Need to tone down obliterate a little and buff the other core abilities.
Other things:
Make BoS a static length for x damage so its not so annoying.
New PVP ability: Frozen Grip - DK can no longer be disarmed or something to that effect.
New pvp ability: Transfusion - Generates 20 runic power and increases DeathStrikes effectiveness for by X% for Y seconds.
Tie shattering blade in with FrostScythe. Shattering blade detonates razorice on all target with 5 stacks of razor ice if Frostscythe debuff exists. This would make Razor Ice 2h and DW more viable while also attacking my issue about obliterate being 50%+ of our damage.
I didnt think DK design could get any worse from previous xpacs… but it is. Thought it was me just getting burned out on the game/dk. Switched to DH with some warlock/hunter thrown in. Having a lot of fun again. DK feels like a chore.
4 Likes
yea i really agree with that chore part. the class feels like its missing something
In PVE frost is top tier…
As of today we are the top melee dps spec only being beaten by bugged warlocks.
In m+ frost got a nice buff and doing good damage. Unholy level in massive pulls? No, I don’t think, but very few specs come close to unholy.
It really sounds like a learn to play issue.
There are lots of great guides out there.
You are most likely doing something fundamentally wrong.
If you feel this is wrong please posts recent logs showing how bad it is. “I did a raid and was the worst dps by far” is not proof. It shows either bad gear or bad play. Most likely a mix of both.
3 Likes
We are totally getting nerfed
So being DW not a gimp style? So again i like to DW. I didnt mind the BoS build. But if anyone took a ratio. Most people i talk to hate BoS… So DW will die off because again its lazyness or dont care about fixing this class. What has change over the past 6 years majorly with this class?
“Top tier” Clearly you didnt read the message my guy. Read the back and forth between me and chillpills. I could do the same damage the average 2.5k io on a warrior/monk/enh sham/dh with less skill cap. Why work harder to get the same numbers? That dont seem like a good class design. Seems like feral over there years. I really think maybe you shine at this class above 90% of people that play frost. But this class should be designed for the top 1% of people who get it. There are threads over and over pvp/pve taking about how bad this spec is. I dont think its just a “ME” issue.
I acknowledge that i needs help in pvp 100% but dude there’s legitimate data from yesterday proving that we’re not bad in pve at all. I think we’ll be legitimately nerfed.
Because of what?
Because of warcraft logs. We’re top or near top on most fights.
I wish our insane PvE damage was reflective of our PvP experience but instead its not
whats sad is how in PvE fdk plays like a bruiser staying in combat but in pvp it turns into rogue, because of how hard it drops off without pillar paired with how little it heals
4 Likes
You mean at the start of a match with almost no dampening before you get a mortal strike on you because basically every class has one now 
deathstrike a minute into solo shuffle ESPECIALLY with a mortal strike is wasted runic power, but hey let’s spend a global and 30RP for an ability that hits for 15k frost is a joke right now
2 Likes
So DW dk is dead?