Just making a statement, nothing to argue with…
12 Likes
We have a niche, working with WW and devokver…
But yeah compared to other melee we are squishy and easily disabled on our only win conditions.
1 Like
If paired correctly you can wipe out their entire team, but if you get unlucky (like in SS), you’re just dead due to lack of survivability and big defensives. And through all this, Blizzard hasn’t helped us at all and forgets about us.
1 Like
They need to make pof 15 or 20 seconds at 12 any comp with CC or disarm just disarms on pof and now no burst
5 Likes
Should have ended the title with ‘Frost DK sucks.’
3 Likes
The only time i pvp as frost dk is when im doung pet battles, and even then i lose miserably.
If frost dk was a Pokémon it would Magikarp, but it refuses to evolve.
Frost dk is so bad, i rather watch superbabies: baby geniuses 2.
What is frost dk like in pvp…, imagine drinking a 64 iced coffee, then eating taco bell 5 layer burrito and having a pepperoni hotpocket for lunch then trying to ice skate uphill all while trying to maintain your body’s bowels.
Frost dk is so sad to play its like a cross between Marley and Me and Old Yeller, except at least in both of those movies the dog is shown mercy at some point.
9 Likes
Yep. Survival is in the toilet. The coming changes do nothing to address it, so thx but no thx.
yup frost dk is garbage. It wasn’t event rank 1 viable during some shadow lands seasons (there were entire seasons last expac where not a single frost dk got the r1 achievement)
makes me sadge. devs haven’t made any useful changes to this class for multiple years. GG no re
2 Likes
Careful, you might summon Petkick who will tell you that frost DK was viable for all 4 seasons in shadowlands and a lot better than unholy.
Although, it would be nice for them to at least make frost dks as good as they were in shadowlands, but blizzard just threw in the towel for frost dk, fury wars and enhance shamans for the rest of the season and might address it next season
3 Likes
I haven’t touched Arenas yet out of fear of this (and lack of money for enchantments)…is it that bad? I refuse to do anything but Frost so should I wait for 10.0.7?
IMO its in competition with Enhancement Sham for the worst mele, but its still pretty fun. You can still drop teams with a properly set up Chill Streak go. Very weak into mele. Just poor defensively in general. Damage is good though.
3 Likes
Upcoming buffs will make frost a lot better than it is currently but only offensively speaking
Defensively you will still get farmed for free by physical classes. The best thing we can hope for is more interesting honor talents that aid in our survivability when they rework them 10.1
A couple of personal ideas i had revolved around things we’ve seen in the past
BFA lichborne: -30% damage reduction 1m cd (it also immuned you from all cc and made you rp walk, but lets just leave that out)
Transfusion: -50% runic power cost on deathstrike, grants 20 runic power
Death Siphon: Ranged heal based on damage delt with this ability, Undodgable and unparryable. Can be hard immunitied
Legion Icebound heal: Increases deathstrike healing by 300% during icebound
Conversion: X runic power per second for X% health per second
Presences: If you readd presences, You should only be able to swap between Blood presence and your respective specs presence. So as frost you can go between blood pres and frost pres, but not unholy pres
Their actual effects could look like this
Blood Presence: Stamina increased by 20% and damage taken reduced by 20% Runic power generation decreased by 25% and damage delt reduced by 15%
Frost Presence: Damage and critical chance on froststrike increased by 20% and Obliterate has a 25% chance not to consume Killing Machine
Unholy Presence: Movement speed/haste increased by 10% and your diseases have a chance to mutate creating a necrotic plague dealing damage and absorbing healing equal to damage delt
The general idea with presences, is that you want to lose a significant amount of damage going into blood presence. Or else we have WoD 2.0 where you sit Blood and never leave
You should want to be in your respective specs presence the majority of your playtime, And you should only want to swap blood when you think theyre about to swap you and stun you etc
Blood has to be really bad to just sit in it, and the other 2 need to provide substantial dps increase to justify being inside of them while brawling it out with other classes
6 Likes
Only so much you can do for a spec that has so few tools. You buff one too much, the spec has too much burst. You buff them all a tiny bit, you can barely feel it because the damage profile is basically all oblit or breath.
Why ret gets a rework and fdk is sitting in shambles in a pool of its own melted ice for yet another xpac (fingers crossed) is beyond me. Super happy about ret, but frost is in need of this too, along with survival hunter because wtf even is that spec?
Did they announce they are actually looking into them in 10.1?
Lots of interesting ideas Chillpills.
I wonder how this is gonna work with Unholy Endurance. Probably would bake it in and this talent just raises that DR.
I’m also confused why IBF is not a 40% DR. Maybe Acclimation can address that? o,o
A choice node! Probably at the place of Death Pact while moving Death Pact to Sacrificial Pact… and yeet Sacrificial Pact.
Sac Pact is pretty much old Death Pact before they implemented healing absorb anyway.
This was such a cool concept that I’m really sad that I missed out. 
I don’t have a boat to ride on Transfusion though because I’d like to do more than just spam DS to stay alive. But in my memory, it’s what we do to stay alive and I am not sure if that’s still the case today.
OH BOY PRESENCES.
The first paragraph about presences is VERY reminiscent to how Warrior stances changed over the years. And to be honest? If stances should evolve and change over the years, so should Presences.
Great! So what about the presences themselves?
Blood Presence
The 20% DR looks VERY NUTTY for Blood Presence. The stamina seems like an icing on the cake. The Damage Reduction is fine (Defense stance does this too) but the RP generation is a very interesting drawback. Blood Death Knights shouldn’t have the RP generation penalty since RP is literally their lifeblood.
The interaction between this and WotN is going to be very interesting. DR stacking is multiplicative so having BP, IBF, WotN active AND Lichborne would make us a very VERY tanky class. Because yes, DR is just THAT powerful much so that our AMZ got nerfed.
Unholy Presence
I want to mention Unholy Presence before Frost Presence because while the proposed idea of Unholy is different. I remember Unholy sets your Global Cooldowns to 1 second. It was a very nutty bonus and with the introduction of Festering Wounds, I would be happy to see the GCD Redox back into this Presence.
Plague mutation is also interesting. I was kind of hoping NP would be a choice node between it and Superstrain. A different synergies that an Unholy Dk can allocate into different nodes should Morbidity isn’t really their thing.
But maybe make Unholy Presence to make 1 second FIXED GCD as a nutty aspect of this presence much like Blood’s 20% DR?
Frost Presence
Finally Frost Presence is… well… a damage (and crit!) increase for Frost Strike and Obliterate has a 25% chance of not consuming KM. I’m really not sure if I’m a fan of this one because this presence doesn’t really stand out compared to other presences. I guess KM consumption refund is nutty? I guess?
Maybe Soul Conduit for DKs so every rune we spend has a chance to refund it? And please don’t mention BoS. I dunno.
Spitballing ideas here but yea, maybe like a Soul Conduit for Dks if we sit on Frost Presence. Soul Conduit for Warlocks is unironically one of the significant damage increasing nodes despite it being tied to RNG for each Soul Shard use.
Conclusion
Bunch of nice ideas there though! That 20% DR on Blood Presence is very mouthwatering. And yes, it’ll feel bad that we sit on this presence for increased survivability at the cost of damage but if it means to increase our overall survivability, it is a price I’m willing to pay.
I wonder how BDK would interact with this new presence. Probably a choice node between Frost Presence or Unholy Presence while making Blood Presence not reduce their RP generation while Frost and Unholy gets their respective presences and Blood.
People saying you can obliterate and entire team in a setup (no pun intended). Yeah sure, if they don’t press a single button. There are infinite counters to fdk damage. Whereas other classes have what’s called unavoidable damage and passive MS effects.
The spec has been neglected in pvp and it shows. So far behind other melee. No survivability, no sustain, predictable and avoidable goes.
Blood doesnt get presences, it would be an honor talent for the dps specs to play was my idea since presences dont really have a place in pve
Itd just be more interesting if the honor talent didnt end at 1 presence since that would mean you essentially just swap into blood pres and then completely turn off presences after
the more i think about it though idk, because it would be a perma pick talent if you got dps ones too
Ohhhh…
… Wouldn’t that make Presence a must pick then? o,o
maybe, that would be the problem
But to be fair also, id rather we have a lot of must picks than trash
its gonna be competing with strang, Aoe stun mainly but all the other talents are so bad that yeah itd be a must pick among our current tree
If they actually made our talents good instead of weird bad and boring % modifiers who knows maybe youd only play pres into double melee
The concept behind PvP Talents is just weird to me. I recall there are some talents in other classes and wondered “Why can’t I use this in PvE?”.
Like Chill Streak… Before Dragonflight.
Like Trueshot Mastery… It’s a bonus for Trueshot (I know MM is garbage rn but bear with me). Why can’t I use it in PvE?
Like FEL LORD for Demo. It’s something else other than Imps, Dogs, Vilefiend and Tyrant. It does a MASSIVE AoE damage! Why can’t I use it in PvE?
So many nice things locked behind PvP Talents that I’ll never use unless I PvP. Proposed presence seems like it is one of them and I’ll be so sad if Presences return only to be locked behind PvP. 