Maybe its more for PvP, but I feel the current version of frost needs some serious looking at. If the playstyle is going to remain the same, just give us better talents or more buttons to press? the 10 second ramp up for obliterate to proc up to do a lot of damage in PvP does not belong
I’m sure the PVE community has some huge frustrations for frost as well. How are we getting zero changes this deep into PTR?? ZERO! That’s unheard of. Every spec is looked at besides the worst-performing spec in the game. (pvp wise at least)
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reason is because frost performs well in PvE where it doesnt have crippling modifiers attached to it so they dont care about it past that point
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Reminder Paladins got a rework even though the numbers pve were “fine”
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Because these forums were very vocal about how the 10.0.7 changes fixed the spec (they did not), and only when we went into 10.1 did those voices change on that.
I’m pretty sure WW and Survival (and to an extent MM) haven’t seen much, if any, love in the past few PTRs, as WW & MM need some design changes and all three need some talent tree adjustments.
Prot and Holy had changes, far from a rework.
Ret had consistent, unified feedback from beta throughout 10.0.5 that it felt horrible to play, even if the numbers were good. In contrast, Frost did not have that, specifically with these forums praising the changes Frost received in 10.0.7 as essentially being “good enough”.
When the feedback swings from “this needs work” to “this is great”, that pushes any future changes further down the pipeline. And, since Frost really does need a Ret level rework, and Blizzard very specifically said Ret getting a rework mid-expansion was an exception to the rule, the earliest any major work should be expected is 11.0.
And to further the argument I will now point at the other classes/specs ALSO getting reworks.
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They’re not reworks. Nothing fundamentally changes with those specs. Cleaning up talent points and pathing is not a rework. An entire tree, damage distribution, and rotational flow change is a rework, and that’s what Ret received.
Mages, Rogues, and Havoc did not get “reworked”. They got the same tree shifts that Druids, Priests, Shamans, and Evokers received.
You can imply they’re the same but objectively they’re not even remotely close.
True.
Still more than what we’re getting.
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as Gorkroth said, i reckon 11.0 is probably the patch we’ll recieve an actual rework. DK is one of the only classes that hasn’t got their big post launch spec reworks. minor changes have happened such as when frost got fatal fixation and some extra points back before 10.1, however there are much larger fundamental issues with the specs that need to be addressed as we all know. i think 11.0 is the most reasonable time at the very earliest to expect that. and if not it’ll almost certainly happen next expac some time.
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After paladins complaining on the forums and all over the internet for about 3-4 xpacs straight of being one of the worst designed specs in the entire game for PvP
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And frost complaining since BFA?
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Frost was better than ret almost all of bfa
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And frosts damage has been “Fine” in Shadowlands and even this expac.
Damage don’t mean nothing. it feels garbage to play as and has since BFA.
With Niche exceptions for certain azerite powers.
Numbers are a band-aid and aren’t going to make this festering wound (get it?) feel any better. It needs to be dealt with properly.
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He didn’t say anything about the damage.
Contrary to the belief of people posting on these forums, the people that were playing FDKs in PvE on retail don’t despise Breath, they despise endless Breath, which has only come around with late SL and Dragonflight. Before then, the biggest “design issue” these forums wanted to tackle were the lack of 2H and Obliterate not feeling good to press, both of which Blizzard addressed (albeit in the wrong way).
Even now, people are still complaining that BoS exists in any form and want it removed. And that’s the point, they’re complaining about BoS, not about the design of the spec. Ret has been consistently complaining about the design of Ret since Legion, so no, the situation with FDKs and Ret aren’t remotely the same.
There are a LOT of complaints even as far back as Shadowlands about how bad Obliteration feels. it is not just Breath.
And at this point I’d use whatever argument gets us a proper rework.
4 Likes
Make Frost scythe and chill streak baseline, up killing machine procs. Remove wraith walk and bake it in to deaths advance with a lower CD. Fix Horn of winter, make it a raid buff and base line. Get the creative team working on some new cool ablities. Fix Abomination Limb, make it what it use to be. I dont know im not a devoper i just want frost to be fun!
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Better yet, get Flarkness in there to do a rework. That guys a pro when it comes to DKs
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What changes did Frost get?
The big ones these forums loved were:
- MoTFW baseline
- Fatal Fixation added
- Remorseless made baseline with the rest of the talents moving up
- Soul Reaper proccing KM during Obliteration