He literally just did the post above.
I donât understand why youâre still not getting it. It was clear as ice.
Clear as ice.
5 Likes
And stacking crit would provide zero pressure inside AND outside of Obliteration windows. Youâll just equally hit like a noodle, at all times.
You say prove me wrong, yet youâre a Heroic PvE dungeon Hero. Your experience with the class beyond the very basics is next to nothing.
Youâre literally the overweight dad that use to play football back in highschool yelling at the college D1 players from the stadium about how they donât know how to play & you could do it better.
Why donât you prove me wrong?
3 Likes
So you are just assuming I am telling you to stack crit which I have said NOWHERE in terms of pvp. I said, that pvp gear, doesnt provide the stats for how frost is designed.
You are saying there is a bridge where there isnt one. Your reading comprehension is really poor that I even have to explain this too you for the 5th time. The stats on pvp gear are not geared towards the design of frost. Just because pvpers gear towards a burst window, does not mean that is what the spec is designed to do.
Well my man, weâre pretty limited on our options.
Crit, Haste, Mastery & Versatility.
If Vers/Mas isnât geared for Frost DKâŠorder of eliminations would suggest Crit or Haste & you love to stack your crit.
But here is the kicker. KM Oblits scale withâŠ
wait for itâŠ
wait for itâŠ
Mastery.
6 Likes
Well, to be fair. There are two different kinds of Frost. When I do dungeons and raid as Frost, I usually go Crit/Haste. Usually to synchronize between PoF and DD through Icecap. Itâs not optimal but it is a build. Weather or not it is competitive is yet to be seen.
PvP Frost however, Vers/Mast is a way to go. Absolutely no doubt.
It really depends on what you do as Frost really. Saying that Vers/Mast is not meant for Frost is simply not true. You get those stats to PvP AS Frost.
3 Likes
True, but we have only been talking about 1 kind. - PvP Frost.
4 Likes
You are absolute right, Kelliste.
Obliteration spec is the way to go in PvP and it scales well with mastery. On top of that, vers/mas are indeed the secondary stats you want - which you get plenty of through the PvP vendor.
Youâre right!
I agree with you.
I hope that you knowing that youâre right on this will end you qualms, your ego can relax and we can become best frans.
Yes, thats why crit and mastery are so good. Crit so you even have access to KM procs, and mastery to boost all gear which scales really well and doesnt diminish until 1050 stat rating or 60% from stats, or 76% overall mastery. Those are the best stats for how Frost was designed. Crit actually makes the spec function.
And again, you are just assuming I am saying Crit and Haste are the best when I didnt say that or even hint to it. Again, reading comprehension, its a good skill to have.
Frost is designed for your autos to crit which gives the chance to proc KM, that then makes your Obliterate into Frost damage which scales with mastery. I dont know if you havent noticed, but there is a pretty big chasm between a non crit non km obliterate. So if you put absolutely everything into the burst window that means outside of it its going to be garbage and people are just going to complain about the lack of pressure, shockingly that is what people are doing. So KM rank 2 is causing problems in every single aspect of the game. Leveling where it doesnt exist its causing it to be slower than it should be. In PvE content its also causing problems where you have to get crit and mastery for the spec to even work, and as I have pointed out there is only 4 items from the raid that give these stats, and the rest you have to go through M+ which is absolutely horrid in terms of trying to gear a character and PvP gear which other specs and classes can target to increase their ilvl, is not good for the spec either. Again, the spec in how it is designed and intended to be.
I dont know why you are talking to me like I dont know that KM Obliterates dont scale with mastery when I have been saying they do since pre-patch when you get KM rank 2.
So, lets look at the conquest pvp gear vendor to see how well it would be in pvp or if you would have to venture into another area of the game to finish out the stats that you would want, or if its even good for PvE where mastery is the least favorable stat because it actually has no interaction with the spec and allowing it to function properly.
First is pvp. If you are DW there is no Mastery/Vers weapon, there is for 2h. So there is 14 gear slots plus one for the weapon. Chest has the stats, the helm has the stats, pants have the stats, boots dont, gloves do, shoulders dont, belt doesnt, trinkets dont though primary stat over everything else but the Sinful Gladiatorâs Badge of Ferocity would be good for pve and is shockingly in the BiS list for pve. Wrists dont have the stats, and the back does (there is also a crit mastery cloak which favors mastery which is good for pve), one ring, and a neck. So even for pvp you would still need 7 items to get the stats that you would technically want for Frost PvP. I dont actually feel like going through all the pve bosses to see if there is any versa and mastery gear which is something that you guys should be doing as pvp players.
The cloak however, you can get from Nathria for pve, so realistically you are still looking at 9-10 items just from M+ for pve and 7 items that pvp players would need to get from PvE if they exist. Mastery scales much too well to ignore for frost. Its the lowest stat rating per 1% increase, and it ignores the diminishing returns at 30%.
Maybe, just maybe, instead of getting all of this mixed stats gear, you actually target the stats that you want. Once you get your ilvl, the next thing you would want to get is BiS gear ANYWAYS. So if you want vers and mastery (and it depends on what you are prioritizing) you cant get it all from the pvp vendor. But have fun trying to pve with vers and mastery if there are vers and mastery gear you can get from pve. I mean if you want to get Koltiras you can do raid finder, but a lot of people find raid finder harder than normal, not because of the mechanics, but because the other players and it just being a complete and utter mess. Trying to cc the bear ghost on huntsman while there is some lone warlock damaging it forcing the mage to constantly poly taking away raid damage, or me to run away from what I am attacking to get in range to stun it. There is a reason why it was easier for people to do normal Nâzoth, than it was to do LFR Nâzoth.
Kelliste just stop arguing until you get some experience under your belt. Youâre back seat arguing at this point. Things donât always play out how they look on paper. You need to actually apply things into real situations with many variables to come to a conclusion. Some people legit think you are trolling because of how absurd you are.
Why do you clowns feed the troll. There are like 120 worthless posts in here.
8 Likes
Because itâs fun. :]
Donât.
Itâs not and Iâm not doing it anymore.
Aw, I thought you were solid minded enough to laugh with me and Neth.
Guess I was wrong and guess what. Itâs okay to be wrong.
NO ITS NOT! chaotic screeching
2 Likes
How about explaining it then instead of just sweeping it under the rug and dismissing it because I havent done what you deem worthy.
I mean why should I listen to you when you are a rogue and you only have 2345 achievement points so based on your requirements no one should be listening to you at all. Not even a little bit.
I mean if you havenât done content, what makes anything you said worthy of opinion? You havenât said anything that actually relates to pvp or pve, just yelled a bunch of nonsense about stat priorities and that LFR is harder than normal because its just a bunch of people who donât know how to play trying to kill a boss with no coordination.
Let me tell you something, even if you have perfect stat priorities, theres about 20 specs that will still out DPS you while not having gear with a perfect secondary distribution or easily beat you in most pvp comps. Nothing to do with the stats, itâs the kit, something you would understand if you know, did content. Literally not hard.
3 Likes
Itâs like having a lvl 15 come up and smack your max level character, you just gotta do it to em.
3 Likes
You know, I canât speak for others but Iâm so damn tired of seeing this argument. Set something up? Chillstreak you mean? Once you get to a high enough level, especially in 2âs which is what I play predominantly, youâll soon see that the so called complexity is EASILY destroyed by 2 things:
The opposing team will split up and make sure you never get chillstreak off beyond 2-3 bounces, or theyâll force you to pop defensives while focusing you down because you are so weak.
When you have a pressure window, youâll be LUCKY to have 4-5 seconds out of 12 seconds in PoF to ACTUALLY hit hard - AND EVEN THEN your obliterates will hit for what, 6-7k?
Meanwhile youâll come up against so many comps that will root, stun, root, stun, force you to pop all your toolkit only to eat 3-4 starsurges at 9-12k EACH. Just an example. Or fire mages/ret pallies that will delete you in a global. Or healers/ret pallies that will just laugh at you while they WoG for 3 TIMES the damage youâre hitting them for.
I stand with many others in here when I say that if you had even stepped foot into rated arenas, youâd know exactly why we are getting so frustrated. Our pressure isnât on the same level as other classes, we are very slow, and even after the buff we still rely on 1 set up to be effective. 1.
Why do you keep arguing? Itâs so silly. We donât want to be âoverpoweredâ - we want to be competitive in our own right, and not some monks side-kick.
God damn it.
7 Likes
So then its stuff that actually relates to pvp and pve⊠the exact opposite from what you just stated. The same sentence contradicted itself which is a pretty tough feat to accomplish.
And yes. LFR, even from the top dogs which have troubles in LFR because its hard to get anyone to do anything properly which is why normal is easier than LFR a lot of times. In normal you have a bunch of people that are coming together, forming a group and wanting to work with each and doing the mechanics. In LFR you have people just running amuck.
And there is something else that you need to understand, some of these specs you are talking about, dont actually scale well. They can perform with primary stats but as it gets further into the expansion other specs start to take over because of their kits and needing the secondary stats that arent available at the very beginning to actually shine. Past Fire Mage says hello when they needed end game crit levels to even be a thing.
And im tired of seeing this poor argument that content means you know what you are doing. It clearly doesnt. Have you not played with other people? How about the hunter that was in a 25 ICC run that was barely over 4k dps while everyone else was around 9-10k dps? Do they know what they are doing? By your standards they should because they did the content. So stop with the poor argument.
And how do you propose to increase the pressure of DK? The reason why you dont have any is because of KM rank 2 and what it does to Obliterate. With you âdoing the contentâ you should have recognized the problem by now shouldnt you? You shouldnt need this âno content scrubâ to tell you that KM rank 2 boosts Obliterate by a pretty big amount.
Since you dont seem to understand what it does, ill give you some information to mull over. Stone Legion Generals, before I got my legendary, my regular non crit Obliterates were doing on average 455+232 for a total of 687 damage. So when I pop everything, my Obliterates go from 687, to 4764+2360 for a total of 7124. Thats a pretty dramatic increase in Obliterate damage and that is exactly why the floor is so low for Obliterate damage. Thats the result of just swapping some gear around to get about 12% more mastery from my previous stat makeup. Before I was doing about 630 per regular Obliterate and 5166 with stuff popped. I can get about another 550 mastery stat without a penalty which would be another increase of about 31% landing me at 76% mastery. That is why Obliterate is the way it is. It should have been apparent to anyone that fought a boar once let alone another player or a heroic raid boss.
And yes, you do want to be overpowered since you said âtechnically other melee are âoverpoweredâ we just want to be on par with themâ meaning you want to be a part of the overpowered crew. So instead of saying âhey these classes are pretty oppressive for the majority of the specs that fight them, they should be looked intoâ you just want buffs. Its pretty apparent that these other classes needs to be toned down. Its the same 3 classes constantly being mentioned. Ret, fire, balance.