He had it worded in a strange way in the post I replied to, but I guess he kind of mentioned in a couple of times when I scroll up. Either way, Frost having a setup is fine. I actually prefer setup based gameplay over the sustained meta in general, even though historically I have preferred locks and SP over mage.
Free pad damage sounds cool and all, probably would be busted in bgs, or need to be nerfed like starfall for balance druids, which would make it bad in arenas.
I liked frost last season, actually didn’t mind it in DF either. Kind of got used to the setup style for it. Currently it’s very much a gimmick. Idk why we needed a change from last season tbh.
1 Like
Yeah the setup style is pretty fun. Setting up a huge multi-kill with an aoe stun + fat obliterate cleaves is pretty satisfying.
I think the intent with the new talent was to allow frost dk to still have the big kill setups without the annoying crowd control from the old remorseless winter stun. They’ve been pruning a bunch CC since the end of dragon flight.
1 Like
Play the PvP talent Delirium against Mages. Just do it. Also, I’d recommend not using Death’s Cold Embrace against them. You will just want to rip out all your hair. Pillar of Frost is still decent without it, and I’m guessing the damage buffs will make it feel even better.
Oh and big super random tip! Make sure you use your Death’s Advance/Horsey movement ability whenever you do use and send Death’s Cold Embrace. You can get flippin’ knocked away if you don’t!!
1 Like
The amount of shamans that knocked me away during my burst is legit comical, you’d think I’d learn after 200 times, but nah.
2 Likes
Can press offensive cd to trigger their weakaura pack then DA/shell their knock/cc. 
Honk.
1 Like
wall of text crits you for a gillion
I think that’s the issue it’s always had, though.
The people who do well with it LIKE the sub rogue setup playstyle and showcase how strong it is.
The average player wants to play arms warrior with edgier mogs and frost is simply NOT that class. And if you make it that way, what differentiates it from unholy but with fewer mechanics or damage conditionals?
The fdk community is super split on what they do and don’t want.
1 Like
Ye, I mock him whenever possible because his ‘buff’ suggestions only make it easier for him to justify playing Ret.
I think most frost dks would probably like it to fall somewhere in the middle. Bit lower sustained than most specs but larger burst potential with killing machines procs and burst phases. Right now it relies too much on killing as many people as possible during dce and then waddling around for the next minute (though the buffs have helped a bit).
I’m not sure if the frost dk community is split on the issue. It seems like they’re mostly in agreement damage outside of pillar should be higher and the cheese factor lowered a bit.
1 Like
The problem is the “cheese” setup just isn’t good. It will always fail vs. equally skilled opponents and this is showcased whenever the best players try to play it in AWC or even on ladder. Yes AWC shouldn’t be used as a balancing metric but it does illustrate how bad the grip>blind>burst goes brrrrr setup actually is when the other team is equally as good. It’s not just Xeek and them trying it either, I’ve seen Mes/Tril/Cdew trying it on ladder to prepare for AWC before and as soon as they face a team more than once they just repeatedly lose. The best case scenario is when you are running it on ladder vs different teams who aren’t prepared for it and you catch them by surprise but honestly 3’s is so dead lately you can even find yourself fighting the same teams over and over again at 2k.
1 Like
Was about to chime in b/c there are so many immunity frames in the game now, DCE isn’t a thing unless people are just seeing it for the first time, don’t know how to use immunity frames or are just so tilted by the sight of FDK they throw.
I have to be most careful on my rogue, but even then a well placed garrote/gouge stops nearly the whole pillar window. My other 3 classes don’t even worry about this as long as I don’t derp and use fade/VR/Horse or AMS poorly.
The FDK setup requires all 3 team members to make it work, if the team relies only on the FDK a decent team will dunk on them in their own open.
I’m happy people are saying Frost DK can be pretty hard to pull off your burst, or that enemies with functioning brains can easily predict and outplay you. It’s just true. When you can blast, you really do blast, but people aren’t complete idiots.
Why play something so frustratingly cheesy when you can just play another class that’s consistent? The Frost DK “plays like a Sub Rogue” thing is fine in a way. I don’t mind them having moments of big booorst. But I do mind that they have hardly any CC (you take Strangulate 99% of the time to not DR with others, and lose stun), a very short ranged skill shot blind, and a skill shot, straight in a line stun (Frostwrym’s Fury) on a 1.5 minute cooldown. Chains of Ice root, which requires a whole PvP talent slot… (Deathchill).
You have to bowl a perfect strike!! Making it really hard to have agency in your own setups. Meaning you have to rely heavily on coordination. While other specs just don’t have this issue as heavily. And I especially mind that (before the Death Strike buff maybe?) Frost DK was about as squishy as a Rogue!
Okay rant over. Frost DK is supposed to be the Arthas adjacent of WoW. I feel like it should be designed way better. Which is why the spec frustrates me so much I think too. Especially since Ret Paladin, which I feel like is the mirror to the spec in a way is so much better and well rounded in comparison.
My shuffle lobbies say otherwise
3 Likes
Frost DK was and still is more squishy tbh lol. Deathstrike Buff helps a bit sometimes but DK defensives are still the worst, especially into physical damage. That and limited cc options and the need to get offensive value from CC to win.
Your defensive is pressing chains and running around I fear
2 Likes
It’s not much, but it’s honest work.
Nah, sub rogue setups started in bfa when artifacts went away and frost lost its brawling potential
all your basic abilities did 0 damage, the only button that did damage was chillstreak which required you to stack targets hence the beginning of setups for frost
shadowlands added obliterate cleave via nightfae, and limb which complemented chillstreak setups
and dragonflight fully introduced obliterate cleave as a core mechanic
its not always been a frosty sub rogue, only in the last couple of xpacs, and all plate specs should play like brawling classes, the only thing holding frost back from doing so is a lack of survivability and maybe to much emphasis on burst aoe which causes its pure st sustain damage to suffer
2 Likes
Bold opinion that I think I totally agree with. What else is the point of wearing plate armor?
ya ya fdk should be like ret rework without the team utility we know
yay exactly