Not entirely wrong, but I’m always immediately skeptical when people say stuff like ‘keys are ez up to 10’ when already positively dripping in raid gear. Hell, people have been spouting this since vanilla days, when I was getting smoked on my Magister’s-geared mage in battlegrounds against Naxx-geared warriors. Ah, one-shot mortal strikes. Good times.
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We definitely struggled to do +10s the first week and most of them were depleted early on as it’s easy to push a +9 compared to a +10 as you don’t have both fort/tyr. While for sure my group generally got more gear from raid like it was said that’s kinda the point, more loot will make this much easier. +10s aren’t made right now to be something most people do right away, they’re meant to be more of a progression.
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Plugged M+ in S3 and S4 of DF. Mid range, got my mount and some portals. Nothing I would consider competitive.
It’s toxic. If you think it’s not, you must be running with guildies or friends.
Delves are better for solo play, as intended. An organized group will roll them over. M+ is better for organized groups.
Different avenues for different people. Do Delves need more tuning? Yeah, but they don’t need to be made any harder. Anub’vir on an 11, in the location of an objective, is a destroyer of fun.
Also, Zekvir ?? after the Brann nerf? Yeah, does not need to be made harder.
Delves. Are. Not. Mythic. Plus.
I’ll stick with my hero vault gear, don’t worry, us filthy casuals won’t touch your Myth track gear.
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Who’s stopped by you from playing at your own pace? You are the only one that can stop that.
Mythic+ wasn’t really meant to be Pugged I don’t think. It works much better doing it with close friends who won’t get toxic with you because they are your friends lol. Many people say this and they are right.
But like Jan Brady, I don’t have any friends- (at least not in WoW) and so delves are perfect for me.
I have done both. Since Legion.
At no point have M+ been a toxic activity.
Ya’ll need to drop this elitist mindset because guess what, nothing of what you described here makes you a casual. Being a casual refers to the mindset one goes into an activity with.
For pete’s sake… there are casual mythic raiders!
Ya’ll need to drop this whole charade of “M+ is toxic” when it isn’t. If you are happy with delves, great! That’s genuinely really good! More fun activities for more people that provide a positive gameplay loop is positive!
But neither M+ nor Delves or raids are toxic. No matter however often ya’ll want to paint with the broadest strokes in the universe an image that it somehow would be toxic.
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Nope. I like it as is. It’s the trade off. O mythic loot
do you play a tank or healer? No way you’ve run into NO toxicity in those roles. As a tank 1 in 5 groups flames me (2k IO score, so I know what I’m doing)
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There is toxicity in all online gaming. Your take here on toxicity is just utter delusion.
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This is toxic.
People wanting to gut what M+ is at its core is toxic.
I’ve been saying for years that people need to ask for a second dungeon mode. Blizz finally made it and instead of just enjoying it you say something super toxic.
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If all forms of online gaming has toxicity, why do people feel like calling specific things for “toxic” in that case…? Yes, there’s plenty of toxicity in online gaming - but to treat it as if everything’s the same and thus… one can single out specific things as toxic?
That’s a complete rejection of reality, whether it be factual, practical, logical, or anything else of the sort. So… yeah, safe to say is that I don’t really think you have a good standard of whether something is “delusional” or not when you fail to realize (or simply don’t care that you do) that you are rejecting basic logic and reality.
And all the M+ players are complaing about it, thus proving how M+ just breeds toxcity in the game.
Any time you put ranked play in an online game, you are going to have toxcity. That is just how gamers are, this is why Blizzard should have known better when they try to implement a system like M+.
Each M+ run has pretty high stakes, espeically for the key holder. The fact that your entire run can be bricked by a few mistakes just makes the entire system not a good fit for a MMO.
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Prior to delves, no.
With the existence of delves, still no.
Why? Because the overwhelming majority of threads on these forums are made by low post-posters with recently became active and uses the exact phrasing and framing that people who argued for M+'s complete removal uses. In other words…
It is a bunch of trolls who don’t do M+ at all who are trying to whine about delves to paint M+ in a bad light. Some might, but if we paint a broad stroke like that by individual trolls you’d have to remove every single activity in any game ever.
No, it ain’t folks who participate in M+ on the regular who is whining about Delves. It is just trolls.
And thus’ you prove that you have never run a single M+ key in the entire time since their introduction since Legion, and the removal of key depletions from the game.
No, folks who regularly runs M+ knows that there’s no high stakes - not any higher than any other regular activity that you can fail. So yeah, you are categorically wrong and are making weird strawman arguments that you should feel bad about having made.
What’s there to complain about? I think I did the 8 week 1 and since then 3? Just don’t do it if you don’t want to.
Are you new to online gaming? Competitive ranked play in an online game can be extremely toxic. Not saying this is the case every session, but overall, competitive play in online games brings out the worst in people.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and kind of stereotype you here.
I’d wager you are a mid 30s guy, maybe older, that only plays WoW as their main online game, you might dabble in a few other games, but this game is your go-to game after work.
With that said, I’ve found that WoW only players kind of live in a bubble when it comes to online gaming.
Players like you that say M+ isn’t a toxic system just lack experience, or have been extremely lucky with their play sessions.
I play a lot of DOTA and competitive FPS games, even those games which have a ton of toxcity can’t hold a candle to what I’ve experienced in M+ and rated PVP in WoW.
I get that players wanted dungeon content to stay relevant for the life of an expansion. I just think Blizzard really failed at creating a system for small group that was a good fit for WoW.
It doesn’t matter what I say here, M+ isn’t going away, but I don’t think it has been good for the game at all. I would say rated PVP has the same problem as M+.
I will admit, though, that this content can be extremely fun and rewarding for guild groups, groups of friends that like playing together. It just doesn’t work well in a world where pugging was like the backbone of this game for over a decade.
I think Blizzard did a really poor job at conveying to the player base of who this system was aimed at from the get go.
The vast majority of WoW players are LFR type players, most people just suck at this game, but they want to be part of these end game activities.
The past versions of the game, the end game was so much more accessible. Playing through Classic has really opened my eyes that most players just want more chill content with a little bit of challenge.
Yeah if a map actually drops.
If you’ve never experienced toxicity from legion til now, I’m happy for you.
That is clearly an exception and not the norm.
Perhaps we use the term casual differently. When I was pushing hard content, casual was a term for those who chose not to push content. Often used as a slur to make ourselves feel more important. I don’t do mythic raids, don’t do M+ high keys, ergo, by my own definition, I’m a casual.
If you use it as defining a mindset, that’s fair.