It was never meant to be sustainable. It was only meant as a museum piece to entice a select group back into playing “the old way” which was something the player base was obviously interested in doing.
It was never meant to alter the storyline in such a dramatic way as “Classic +” proponents suggest.
Im not sure I understand. What do you mean by “New content is for expanstions.”?
Obviously it wasn’t meant to be, nor did blizz forsee the overwhelming response to it that they got.
Other than arguing why you think it wont happen, do you think it shouldnt happen?
I don’t think Blizzard is smart enough to do Classic+, as much as I wanted it. It looks like they’re just gonna go down the same road they went last time until Classic becomes retail and loses all its players again. And then I guess they start over again? Idk. Pretty dumb, though.
Considering how broken a lot of classes/specs are in Vanilla, as well as the horrible gear itemization for those classes/specs, a good Classic+ (which also addresses those issues) is the only thing that would ever get me to play Vanilla Classic again.
A talented & creative Blizzard could have made a ton of money off a good WoW re-envisioned game release that didn’t exactly adhere to the old game/xpacs exactly, but still maintained the basic core spirit of the original game/content.
“Classic+“ shouldn’t be confused with “vanilla+“, imo.
What I really want to see is a vibrant classic timeline that applies modern tech and design capabilities. For example, the very concept of class balance has evolved considerably since tbc, and it would be very interesting to see an evolved form of this content. More balanced specs, better talent trees, more build options, all specs viable and with flavor-appropriate gameplay, etc.
Retail has done a lot of good in this regard, even if some things have flopped a bit. There’s a ton of room for exploration here if we open up the design space a bit.
Speaking of opening up the design space, what other raids and dungeons can we get? What about new zones, maybe new continents? Northrend and Outland are new continents with lots of new zones, but also we don’t need to just keep adding new islands or interplanetary portals.
Hyjal, uldum and the twilight highlands are in cata and on Azeroth. The zandalari tribe has members on azerothian shores. There are turtle shells along the shores of Azeroth with signs of pandaren architecture on them.
Timbermaw hold is said to be a MASSIVE network of tunnels running underneath northern kalimdor (hyjal/winter spring/felwood/etc). Let’s open those gates!
Timbermaw Hold - East Entrance in Azshara
Timerbermaw Hold - West Entrance in Felwood
They both enter into the “same” raid, as they are part of the same network of tunnels, but it’s simply too much to be done at once and must be addressed piece-wise. Fire up those lockout extensions, boys!
Once you defeat the furbolgs, in the depths of the hold (and who knows what’s goin on inside?!) you uncover a threat - and an entrance - to hyjal proper and the classic-ized zone of hyjal becomes available.
When in hyjal we do some stuff, kill some things, learn some lore, and uncover a threat associated with the emerald dream. hand waving because idk enough of the lore to pull a plot out of thin air and now we’re facing an emerald dream classic expansion.
Yes, “classic expansion” in the sense that this only comes to classic directly. I have nothing at all against this somehow being connected lore-wise to retail’s canon timeline (I keep thinking something something the maw in retail something something urged split the timeline at arthas’ death something something butterfly effect something something no cataclysm). Forcing classic down the same locked-in track that retail did go down is definitely not the way forward for classic+. That’s just replaying retail with a 15 years ping.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved cataclysm and had a ton of fun in it. There are some changes it brought that were cool, and I liked seeing the old world grow (not so much liked seeing it destroyed but that’s a separate topic). I loved pandaria and think it’s a great continent. I sure as f- wouldn’t want to play cata or mists classic, though.
I am not saying “don’t do a re-retail timeline”, I’m saying don’t ONLY do a re-retail. I am not gonna knock people for wanting to play classic past wotlk, I just really don’t see there being as much interest. If you want to see the stuff mentioned above in classic+, we should get it in an alternate timeline form.
And if it’s classic vs classic+, a well-done classic+ will outcompete by a country mile. Classic+ is, no joke, a golden opportunity for wow as long as they take it seriously and execute on it with respect bordering on reverence. Lead the way and tell the story you want to tell with retail. Defer to the players for classic+ and provide support, frameworks, guidance, but don’t be heavy-handed. Retail is akin to playing DnD with a DM that has a vibrant campaign that he loves laid out ahead of you, but it’s railroaded to the point that you’re more an observer than a player. Classic has the potential to open that tight grip up a bit.
You know what was really cool? Seeing auchindoun in its prime.
You know what’d also be really cool?
Seeing a flourishing silvermoon following the sunwell raid and purification of the sunwell.
Cleaning up gnomeregan (did someone say “additional raid and dungeon content, continued lore and a snazzy new city”?)
gadgetzan from hearthstone maybe?
Speaking of gnomes, goblins, cities, and opening up new possibilities, whatever happened to being at war with factions? Sure the aldor and the scryers play nice in shattrath, but the bloodsail buccaneers aren’t allowed into booty bay for a reason, lol.
Sub-Faction warfare! Dynamic and engaging, flavorful, allows for meaningful player choice, etc.
<post is getting long so I’m gonna just fire it off and add more later>
I kind of don’t want classic+. I mainly want a shortened 1 year version of 6 phase Classic with a new endgame meta. Raids, dungeons, classes, racials, and the pvp system redesigned/rebalanced.
It seems so far-fetched to even consider, but maybe a new battleground and a new raid after Naxx, a new 20 man catch up raid, or arenas.
So Classic+
It’s okay to say it. A lot of us want it
I love the ideas. I feel the best part about classic+ is that it is open to so much potential just within the two main continents.
So many unexplored and unexplained places and stories.
I really want a vanilla version of hyjal, kara, and like you said, to elaborate on bloodsail buccaneers and timbermaw. A real pirate ship raid please!
There are a bunch of youtube videos showing all of the content left behind in vanilla, we want to see it all!
Classic+ should do something better with pets. Something akin to the pet collection tab but associated with stable masters would be really cool. You can board your pet collection with the stable masters (maybe the pet store in dalaran?) and keep a shortlist on your person. You’d be able to rename them as well. Distinctly not account-wide.
Similar treatment could be done with mounts but at a currency cost (gold sinks are always needed).
Once the pet collection mechanics open up, pet content can be added. I have personally never completed a pet battle in my life but it’s cool that they’re in the game and I know people that enjoy them. I don’t see how this couldn’t fit, if done with proper respect for the game. No shop pets, no outrageous or immersion-breaking pets, etc.
Lil’ Kel’Thuzad as a pet is not respectful of classic, for example. You spent how long clearing naxx, only to be patronized by the tiny little chibi clone of your dreaded enemy - and it costs you $10? Passssssssss
You found a zulian tiger cub inside ZG or a whelp from onyxia’s brood? Nice!
New colors, higher res textures, new species? Who is going to say no to a higher res calico cat or a slightly recolored dragonhawk? What about a spider, or a butterfly for your druid? There are some cool demon pets that would fit well with a lock, for example. Enchanted quills, lamps, lanterns, mechanical animals, animated gemstone panthers/elekks, voodoo masks, etc could be profession-based pets.
Speaking of, professions could do well by an expansion. Instead of just adding new tiers of mats and recipes, there could be more of a holistic approach. Exact recommendations on this one are tricky and it’ll be a difficult system to solve, as goblins tend to be great at economic optimization, which tends to “solve” in-game economies, but some of the best fun I’ve has has been in periods of in-game economic livelihood. Being a mage running an enchanting service is a lot of fun, for example. Being the warrior that’s also a master weaponsmith is a lot of fun. The Hunter that goes on expeditions for exotic leathers and turns them into wares, lot of fun. The shaman brewing up potions and elixirs from the herbs that his druid friend gathers for him, and sharing them with the party, etc.
The professions enhance gameplay experiences if done well. They’re not valuable to the game as either a chore (needed for player power) or an irrelevance (not worth messing with). There’s a healthy middle ground that adds a lot of joy to the gameplay experience.
Yes, it shouldn’t happen.
This isn’t OSRS, but people like yourself are DESPERATE to push the game in that direction.
A vocal minority is not “a lot of us”.
Seethe more retail shill
It is rather disingenuous to try to miniaturize the comparison to OSRS as it’s made simply as an example-given for a continuity model for rehashed “oldschool” or “classic” MMOs, and is perfectly apt as an example. It demonstrates a functional and growth-capable model that incorporates several different elements of MMO design and monetization that are currently unanswered questions in world of warcraft’s development.
As for being a vocal minority, the term doesn’t even apply here because you and I and everyone on this forum are the vocal minority, not people with opinion A vs opinion B. I’m sure it sounds good to claim to be a majority but the non-vocal majority are the people who never even come to the forums at all.
As for gathering information from those people - the actual majority - I dare say blizzard sending out formal survey emails is a better indication and eventual source of data than your armchair proclamations about the collective opinions of millions. They see talk of fresh servers on the forums so they start sampling the players to get actual data and to gauge community response.
The community has responded by bringing up discussions about classic+ and laying out ideas. The Timbermaw Hold thing I posted earlier wasn’t my idea, for example. It’s been brought up in discussions on Reddit, in-game, etc.
This hopefully leads to another round of internalization followed by data collection. At that point people at blizzard will begin know (not the public) more about the true, brass tacks viability of producing this.
The people that want “it” (classic+) hope to see that data supportive of doing “it”, but we’re currently in the phase of discussing what “it”, i.e., the desired continuity model for classic, actually looks like.
Thing is, classic as it currently is going doesnt actually require a whole lot of input. There are some engineering challenges porting the code and maybe some tiny dev work to keep things rolling smoothly (chronoboom-sequel) but that’s it.
On the other hand, there is a massive opportunity in a classic+ done well for revitalization of the game (retail and classic both) while also relieving the design pressure built up in retail by trying to please too many audiences at once. Blizzard has an enormous talent pool, loads of resources, and will be doing nothing but leaving money on the table if they don’t keep growing their games. Classic+ represents an opportunity to utilize those resources and talent to create additional value in the warcraft IP/universe, add to the experience of the game, extend longevity of the game and its offshoots, etc. and if the alternative is to just NOT do that…
Seems unrealistic and irrational. Might I point out that this exact same rhetoric was used time and time again against people trying to get formal vanilla servers? And here we are in TBC classic, with wotlk on the horizon, and talk of going even /further/ in the air.
what you think classic+ should be:
-better itemization
-azshara battleground
-furbolg raid
“so like classic but better?!”
what other players think classic+ should be:
-gold token
-less grinding
-onyxia mount
“so like classic but better?!”
Current Blizz devs don’t have the chops to produce anything new for classic+.
No…really.
Let’s just hope they can find a way to reduce mage dungeon boosting and be rid of world buffs. Anything else they can manage to code without screwing up is icing on the cake.
I do not support Classic+ simply because it will mess up what is Classic. Everyone has their own idea for what Classic+ would be. In many ways current retail could be called a version of Classic+. That is why I am against it. No matter what they add to the game it will change something that many of the Classic community look at as a core concept and pivotal to the feel of Classic. Classic needs to stay Classic.
I definitely think it shouldn’t happen. I mean, I was never one who cared about the idea of taking away from retail. But, the very idea that Blizzard would hire people to make new content for Classic, and not work on the problems and content for Shadowlands really rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, no. Absolutely not. Not unless they do something about retail first.
Fresh Start Classic+ what I want:
Change in whole talent system: there were too many useless talent attributes. Some talent skills should just become skills, and some specs became that awful that no one wants to take that specs to raid or pvp. I am looking at you ret pally. (Is ret pally player). WOTLK fixed a lot for many specs, but this doesn’t even need to be retail. It just needs to be fixed for balance so that players don’t exclude others out for the specs they choose.
Add Dual Spec: It doesn’t even need to be 1000g. Just leave it as 100g and this will also help players to change specs to be useful in pvp and pve by being flexible for friends, guilds and even pug.
Some global once only events should be repetitive once every 3 months for players to come back and do them: scarab lord, necropolis events that had event items and mount should be done once every 3 months for those who missed em. I have witnessed few folks who got tired of doing AQ because they couldn’t get the weapons.
Redo some racial skills to balance factions.
Reduce 40 man to 20/25 man.
Level sync difference for 5 level higher than the meeting stone in case someone wants carry. But this would prevent people from asking high lvl to Mage boost them.
Guild Bank
What I think Classic+ should have but I don’t care if it is not there:
What I think Classic + shouldn’t have:
I’m sorry, how does classic + affect retail players?
This forum is for wow classic players. Might I suggest you return to your own hol… Excuse me. Forums?
Resources. Blizzard investing a whole lot of monetary resources and labor that should be invested first and foremost in Retail. If Retail is taken care of first, then I have no problem with Classic + adding new content.