Forsaken Themes: Freedom & Power

Pulitzer prize winning author, Robert A. Caro, is a writer and journalist who’s covered many important men in modern American history. Some of which you’ve probably not heard of and others of which, like Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard Nixon, you probably have.

Before I get into the fantasy claptrap I would recommend reading some of his books. They’re really interesting examinations on the sort of people who seek power, and how and if it changes them. It’ll give you new perspective on a lot of people in the headlines. But enough with the digressions.

I mention this man and give some background on him for this quote;

But although the cliche says that power always corrupts, what is seldom said … is that power always reveals. When a man is climbing, trying to persuade others to give him power, concealment is necessary. … But as a man obtains more power, camouflage becomes less necessary

So what on Azeroth does this have to do with everybody’s favorite friendly neighborhood flesh eaters, the Forsaken? Well let me hit you with another quote, this time from Captain Amelia Stone. Who to the best of my knowledge hasn’t written a biography on Robert Moses, but does have some insight on being newly Forsaken;

It was… invigorating seeing those people get what they deserved.
Is this what it is like to be free? To set your own rules?
Perhaps I could get used to this.

The Forsaken may not have immediate power, in the traditional sense. Unless Zachariah Post has been playing the longest of long cons I think he’s just selling skeletal horses.

But they do have an unparalleled and immediate sense of freedom that no other playable race has.

Foremost is the freedom from all biological imperatives. Which is an enormous liberation that’s such a foreign idea to us, the audience.

Think for a moment; imagine you no longer have to eat. Or drink. Or even breathe. Or even worry about how fragile your body is.

Now many of us would no doubt still partake in hot food, cold water, fresh air and routine health and hygiene even if we didn’t have to. But how much of your life is dictated by those needs? I’m going to wager most of us go to work less because of a passion for it, and more because that’s how you go about getting reliable access to food and a roof.

What if you didn’t have to, though? What if you could pick a direction and wander till you got bored or found something interesting? Knowing that even if a pack of wild dogs ripped off all your limbs that it would be more of an inconvenience than a miserable, painful death? What would you do then?

The second largest freedom the Forsaken have is partial liberation from societal expectation.

Now this gets tricker because of the disaster that was Before The Storm. But until anyone can bring hard facts to disprove my interpretation that Sylvanas turned the UC into a police state after becoming Warchief, I’m declaring it as canon.

In Death Knell it is stressed out the gate the Forsaken don’t coerce anyone to join them;

You are no slave, %t. You are free to follow whatever path you choose from here. If you choose to serve the Dark Lady Sylvanas, I recommend you speak with Undertaker Mordo. You will find him behind me, in the graveyard.

You’ve done well, class. As you can see, not all of us have resigned to our fates. I’m glad to see that you’re at least willing to work.
Valred will be a valuable asset to the Forsaken. As for the other two… there is not much we can do. We cannot force them to join us.

This is well demonstrated in Death Knell, where the rebel NPCs at the Rotbrain Encampment aren’t hostile until plans to attack Deathknell are discovered. Likewise nobody stops Lilian Voss from leaving. It’s clear from the nomenclature with the former and quest text relating to the ladder that the Forsaken are disappointed and even offended when someone rebuffs their invitation, but they don’t actually do anything to hinder them.

But beyond that what a Forsaken is supposed to do with themselves even if they join up seems very up to their imagination.

They’re the most eclectic playable race in game. With the Orcs or Kaldorei for example you’ll get a diversity of careers and opinions, but for the most part you see similar naming and career conventions.

Not so with the Forsaken.

You’ve some characters like Pontius who not only kept his name, but career. Guy loved breeding dogs in life and found new purpose in breeding darkhounds in undeath. Admits the devil doggos aren’t quite as pleasant to look at but then again, sames true for him, so what’s the difference? If the guy is grimly going through the motions and merely acting through a spooky simulacrum of his past life he doesn’t seem to show it;

Did you hunt down some crows, boy? Good dog, good boy!

  • Pontius in regards to his darkhounds. He refers to them as his boys and seems ever so offended the troops at Vengeance Landing are offering them crap rations.

But then you’ve others like Nathanos Marris, now calling himself Blightcaller, who seems to insist on being a grim grumpy gus to impress the Banshee Queen. I know Lor’Themar said he was always a prick but he seemed to put up with Elf racism (You, slack jawed half ape, why do you not respect me?) and is basically normal in other past depictions. Plus he’s shown sustained grief over his cousin being murdered to upgrade his body after it got dog toyed by an abomination.

Suffice to say I think he was grinning in the end less for being a prick, and more because he was kinda in to being emasculated by a buff elf woman with a bow. Worse ways to go I suppose.

I bring this all up, well because I like making fun of Natty Blight, but more importantly because it really does seem the Forsaken are free to pursue whatever they want so long as it does not threaten their state. The only instance of someone going too far was Warden Stillwater in the Sludgefield. The only line you do not cross is stealing the free will of a fellow undead. Otherwise raise puppies or throw them in a blender to make toast spread. Kinda on you, pal.

I believe freedom is power, and the Forsaken have that in spades.

They have no involuntary personal responsibilities holding them back. No hunger, no thirst, and even the indifferent march of time is irrelevant.

Their only real societal rule is don’t attack this society.

And there is no authority stopping them from achieving virtually anything they want to do.

Is that not a fascinating theme to explore?

The vast majority of the Forsaken appear to be commoners. And even if they were aristocrats, they have no power or wealth here anymore, they start at square one same as a ditch digger.

It’s not just a second chance at life, it’s life with noclip on.

Exploring what people might do when they have no limited time and no pressing responsibilities they didn’t volunteer for is such a fascinating idea to me.

This is one that has underlined the Forsaken since day one but it’s obviously a less marketable concept than sexy ghost elf so it’s largely taken a back seat.

But now? This is a field ripe for exploration. We know people like Voss were already dangerous in life. But what about the Black Bride? What about Calder Gray or Commander Belmont? These may well have been peasants and clerks who clawed their way to levels of authority now that they didn’t have to buy an education or be held back by mortal frailties.

This is an aspect of the Forsaken that demands exploration. And it’s one I sorely hope Blizz invests in moving forward.

The undead now have the power to go do whatever they ever wanted to do. What does that reveal about them to us?

Also just give a Voss a makeover and we’re fine. Resident Evil 7 showed us twitchy goth cannibal gals with blood stained mouths have a surprising amount of thirsty fans all over the gender and sexuality spectrum so, if you’re just worried about box art you’ve an ace in the hole already.

But if you want to do more interesting things with one of your most unique races;

See above.

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It is really unfortunate that the Forsaken, besides just being overly centered around Hot Ghost Elf, ended up being overly defined by how monstrous their actions are. Remember the “It’s for the Horde” response to the question of what makes them different than the Lich King?

They do not need to be withered, goody two shoes humans, just have a bit of respect for the living’s free will and lives. Their time with the Horde could have been used to teach them that it not the living as a whole that needs to be mistrusted, it’s those who don’t respect their existence.

But, as their Banshee Queen became Satan’s Right Hand Woman, they became Kor’kron 2.0 Scourge Edition with convenient living friends. Validating the Lordaeron Vult crowd like the Orcs and Trolls with Daelin was sickening.

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Im still reading Before the Storm, and even though I know a bit about what’s going to happen, I’m still loving the Undercity chapters. Their undeath has made them more introspective and thoughtful.

I am kinda upset though that Blightcaller was tossed away with Sylvanas. At least, in the chapters I’ve read so far, he’s a true Forsaken. He’s goes down to Undercity and checks on everyone at Sylvanas requests, and I was happy to see him being very respectful and mindful of the other Forsaken.

There’s a scene in which one of the Forsaken almost passes out from hearing her true name and Nathanos catches her. And when they ask him to go talk to Sylvanas on their behalf, he doesn’t blow it off, he actually delivers their words and concerns.

I’m just salty because I still think grumpy man could have been a good leader for the Forsaken had he not followed Sylvanas to hell lol. Really, his grumpiness was endearing. His worst traits was his obsessive nature regarding Sylvanas. Take Sylvanas away and he’s a rational logical man. Which the Forsaken are.

He would have worked closely with Voss too, making her transition into leadership more natural than something forced because there’s a void.

Sigh…I just don’t know what they’re gonna do now with the Forsaken now. Plus, you have to remember, Sylvanas wasn’t just the Banshee Queen - she CREATED the Forsaken. No Sylvanas means technically no more Forsaken are being made. Only Sylvanas was crazy enough to WANT to create Forsaken, free willed sentient zombies, to begin with.

How will blizz justify the continuing existence of Forsaken now?

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Honestly they were just more stupid than evil. Voss is the only one who’s horrified about Sylvanas torturing an undead into service.

This is, again, the highest and far as we know only crime in Forsaken society, for which the punishment is immediate summary execution.

And none of the Forsaken seem to care? Likewise I’ve no earthly idea why they were raising Unnelves. Or why they were in Darkshore in general when they’ve an obvious interest in securing Stromgarde and literally have a whole division of their armed forces specialized in fighting the Alliance in Arathi.

But really the Knights of the Ebon Blade did worse than than them in Legion by a lot. And even in BFA Bolvar raised an ish ton more people into undeath than the Valkyr did. And didn’t even bother giving them a tutorial.

So, kinda don’t care about faux tears about the Forsaken when I’ve seen not one topic complaining about how Bolvar, who made 9 playable races undead, is a hero.

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Great post/thread. Zelek got a lot of attention for being a willing Forsaken convert, leaving behind the pain of his disease ridden body for a new “life,” as an undead, but I’ve always liked Amalia and her little story about undeath leaving her unbound from the societal morays which protected the corrupt captains who screwed her over for their own profit despite her being a good person who always followed the rules. The justice she visits upon them from what she tells us is richly deserved, and its something that would have been impossible for her to even contemplate, let alone execute, when she was just another Kul Tiran getting ground under the bootheel of her “betters.” The idea of Forsaken society being fundamentally more egalitarian, with a totally different moral framework inspired by their own loss of privilege as they went from Richest And Strongest Humans to Shunned Monsters Undeserving Of Even Life in the eyes of those that had once been their friends, allies and even family, is one I’ve always wanted to see the Forsaken follow. Amalia unfortunately has some of the themes she explores undermined by being a murder victim of the very people that are helping her cope with changing and helping her understand the benefits of undeath, which is something the story is quick to gloss over, but the ideas are good. Its why I’ve long wanted to see a lore change that Forsaken can’t be raised at all unless they WANT to be raised. It doesn’t make murdering Amalia RIGHT of course, but it would help mitigate the uncomfortable aspects of her story to know that she wouldn’t even be there unless she was willing to go through it all to keep “living.”

In a similar vein, (and in light of Pride Month) I’ve had several discussions with Lore buddies over the years about the potential of Forsaken as allegory for LGBTQ+ individuals. Fantasy Race As Allegory is always fun, and its not a difficult leap. The core identity of the Forsaken has always been people who were once “normal,” going through a change that they couldn’t control, the people who made up their old lives shunning and dehumanizing them because of that change, and they in turn needing to create a new existence and find new reasons to go on and be happy in that existence. And along the way perhaps finding that they’re more “alive,” in this new form than they ever were before. The big roadblock here is of course how strongly tied free will and thus choice is to the Forsaken identity, which is NOT something one wants to imply is core to being LGBTQ of course, but its not an insurmountable roadblock I don’t think. There are ways to spin it without creating the unfortunate implications.

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Moral greyness seems to be either glossed over outside of an occasional voice of displeasure or used to justify going out right morally black.

The factions represent this dichotomy to a disturbing degree.

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Well, their actions are pretty much wholly monstrous. What little they can lay claim to is just what they’ve done for their Horde. Which, is all they will ever do, unless most races get some kind of in depth zoom, which could happen I guess. There’s a pause after Sylvanas takes flight her second time, and disappears into thin air. Then Tink Tink cemented her moniker, and turns back into Orgrimmar, because of course she would.

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Same. I’m really annoyed that Blizzard listened to the whiny man-babies that can’t take Nathanos being snarky and unimpressed with how “amazing” we are. Especially after his role in Shadows Rising seemed so promising for future character development. Same for Gallywix who I’m sure Blizzard will absolutely waste as a boring 1 patch raid boss.

Great, now every character is a boring do-gooder. What a great cast. I’m sure this will lead to interesting stories down the road…

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Well she more rallied what was already there than made them. The Scourge did that. But baring a retcon it is doubtful the Forsaken would’ve been able to form a cogent nation without her.

Most of the Forsaken were fairly normal people. Most of the other humans who could lead such a rebellion were either destroyed or made lieutenants of the Scourge already. Sylvanas was where she was because Arthas liked to insult her even in undeath.

But that was then. Even Sylvanas herself has noted how capable the Forsaken had become in Edge of Night, and it’s been a long while since even then. Plus we know from Edge of Night, which is fun for the Forsaken until it breaks all their lore and just sorta shrugs, that they’re more than capable of self rule.

And as for population- that’s fairly irrelevant in this setting. Maybe they find a new source of Necromancy, maybe they don’t, but that whole plotline is an abandoned plot thread that was meant to give Sylvanas something to busy herself with post Arthas.

For comparison 90% of the Sin’Dorei were killed. That’d be as if 297,000,000 Americans died in one attack, and then we fought in huge world wars for 8 years. Only this is WoW where Stormwind is said to have about 200k people. So unless the Belves reproduce in egg clutches and mature in a year, there should be like only a few hundred left. But it never matters.

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It has been a long while since then. Too bad Edge of Night is considered word of god canon for so many on this forum while other, even more recent examples of Sylvanas’s characterization are spit on and thrown under the bus and called retcons.

What a shame.

Agreed. Being a story person following WoW’s lore and obsessing over population statistics is a one-way ticket to sadsville. Blizzard does not care one iota about population levels. There will always be enough XYZ race to write the story Blizzard wants to tell at that moment and time. That’s the way it is, that’s the way it has always been, that’s the way it will always be.

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And the populations aren’t even accurate for medieval cities. Much less Classical era ones like Rome. And as Warcraft has fairly avaliable access to multiple types of healers, and advanced medicine with sorts of alchemy and engineering, you’d think their cities would rival ours.

Like medieval Paris had about 200k. But until the industrial revolution most cities grew by migrants, not births, what with infant mortality and plagues being a thing. But that wouldn’t be the case here.

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The one bright spot in this garbagefire of an expansion is that hopefully this means new Forsaken lore can FINALLY not be just about dumbass Sylvanas.

Focus on stuff like the Apothecaries where you can make them pretty “morally grey” without being outright mustache-twirling evil. Or hell how about the Apothecaries being shown actually doing stuff beyond making world-ending poisons and instead focus on healing and/or helping Forsaken stave off their Final Death. I always enjoyed that plot point from Vanilla that seemed to be dropped after 1-10.

The Desolate Council was also a neat idea before it was obliterated for the crime of not being Sylvanas.

I still can’t believe they introduced such a great Forsaken character in Zelling and then killed him off in the same expansion. What a waste. Again, for the crime of not being a Sylvanas simp.

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Pretty sure the primary reason people disliked Nathanos was because he was a gigantic Sylvanas simp constantly moaning about how great she was and was elevated to arguably the biggest active Horde character in BfA. Not that he didn’t kiss our asses.

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Sure, but you’re wrong. It was mostly because he was a snarky world quest/story quest giver.

Nathanos and Sylvanas’s relationship is well-established in the lore. And Nathanos and Sylvanas’s relationship went completely under the radar in Legion.

It was only when he became a snarky quest-giver in BfA that the community pitched a toddler-level fit.

It is what it is.

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The thing is, while I did like her character*, even during Legion I would say she should either leave or take a background role because she was just too dominate.

*I’ve mentioned before how Edge of Night solidified my disinterest in returning to WoW for the better half of a decade. Mainly because Sylvanas seemed to really care about the Forsaken until then. And moreover had these oddly sweet moments. In BC children’s week I distinctly remember her smiling and being genuinely kind to the kids, and this totally throwing other NPCs. And that would’ve made for a better character.

But even pre BtS at least she had that unyielding respect for freedom, no undead would ever be her thrall and above all else she - oh nevermind she’s shooting even the unarmed Forsaken citizens actively pledging loyalty to her. Weeee.

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Except he was like that before BfA. He acted exactly the same in Legion as well.

…what? I never said that it was unbelievable or people were claiming they weren’t romantically linked.

I said people dislike Nathanos for standing around moaning about how great she is and that’s obnoxious. The significant number of players who find Sylvanas intolerable find her boyfriend constantly talking about how great she is equally as intolerable.

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Most people who did not play Vanilla did not even know who Nathanos was in Legion. Again it’s only because he was snarky to people in BfA that people hate him. I remember the Battle of Lordaeron cinematics, no one whined (in place of a better word) about Nathanos at that point.

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You’ll find no argument from me that Sylvanas post ICC was ruined.

From Frozen Throne until Wrath she was a great character with a tragic, interesting, backstory that should have culminated with her death at her own hands after discovering that even achieving what she wanted, she still felt hollow.

A commentary on how just because you experienced trauma does not mean you’re allowed to force others to experience it without turning you into a monster yourself.

And then she was just turned into a mustache-twirling villain whose plot armor let her get away with everything she did. Even building in auto-lives into the story to help her do so and feign a “consequence” without actually giving her one.

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What? Yes they absolutely did.

He’s snarky in Legion too. I like how you just keep ignoring that he acts exactly the same in Legion.

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They didn’t. Remember that the Battle for Lordaeron was pre-patch. No one even noticed Nathanos in that cinematic. It was only in BfA-proper that anyone even knew who he was or cared becuase he was snarky.

And again no one cared about Nathanos in Legion. Show me one person who cared about Nathanos in Legion and I’ll admit defeat.