Up to what extent does this apply?
Like, yeah, in the Forsaken starting area you are given a choice to serve Sylvanas or to be returned to death (something like that?)
Of course the player is gonna work for the Forsaken cuz that is why you created a character.
My point is, seeing as how Derek received ‘‘conditioning’’. I am wondering to what extent does free will apply to Forsaken
Free will for Forsaken is an illusion. A facade.
Like all racial cultural traits, forsaken free will is true until a writer needs it to be not true.
So it’s true in the starting area and false everywhere else because it’d get in the way of whatever garbage the writer of the day wants to write.
Before the raised were able to either join Sylvanas, leave, or be put back to death.
Not, it is quite unclear, given the whole Derek situation.
I never got the whole pause for Derek, he’s not a part of the Forsaken faction/nation proper, he’s a tool to be used and discarded.
In general I’ve always been under the belief that the average Forsaken are free willed but they are limited on emotions and thoughts(I have several reference to back this). In some cases the Forsaken are exactly the same as in life, but I don’t get that vibe from the general population. Voss recently reiterated that the Curse of Undeath affects people differently.
We are such rascally goofballs. They have the capacity for free will, sure. BUT The old fashioned scourge brand of undead were even conditioned to have a need to devour large quantities of humanoid flesh (and other necromantic needs the scourge came up with to guarantee compliance,) And a good number of those guys are still around. I cant imagine many groups outside of the forsaken that would allow such behavior, AND Lone undead are often picked off.
So while Forsaken might have free will, anyone with the moral outrage, or backbone to exercise it has been returned to death upon being raised, murdered, or ostracized and then murdered.
Quotations are necessary when referring to Forsaken “Free Will.”
It seems that the Forsaken have free will as long as they make the choices Sylvanas wants them to.
He is also not the first person Sylvanas attempted to condition. She was trying with Koltira. While she was ultimately not successful with him, she did try.
It seems that if someone who is raised accepts her as leader and agrees with her, great they have ‘free will’. If they don’t it becomes a question of how useful they are. If they are likely to be useful, she will try to break them and condition them to accept her as leader and agree with her commands. If they are not likely to provide a significant advantage, she just returns them to the grave.
Remember WC3? One of my favorite quotes “Can someone shut him up and steal his mind already” They were going around possessing and charming everyone they could. I don’t see it as the a negative mark on “Free will is the cornerstone of the Forsaken society”
Imagine if she would have used it to condition Godfrey, she may have had a few extra Val’kry at her disposal. I can’t imagine the she could use it willy nilly on everybody lody dody. It doesn’t look like a snap of the finger process that is guaranteed to work.
Oh, I agree. That is why it seems likely it is a question of about the effort vs reward. Simple question of how much the process is going to take in resources and time against how much is the end result going to help her. If she thinks the math works out positive for her, she will do it. If not, she is just going the return to the grave route.
Seemingly Forsaken have free will, but they’re warped and demented by the necromantic process, which makes them susceptible to Sylvanas’ manipulation.
Sylvanas doesn’t seem to employ constant mind-control magic. Instead, being raised into undeath can warp people’s psyche, memories, emotions, and personality. From there, Sylvanas offers this newly-demented individual a choice between serving her or dying. (Most of them don’t want to die.)
The closest she’s come to mind control is in Silverpine, where a developer claimed she manipulated the emotions of the newly raised Alliance troops, but didn’t seize actual control of their minds.
Not successful as far as we know.
For all we’re aware, she might just say, “Twelve gibbons on parade” and that’s the command phrase that sets Koltira off into destroying Acherus from within, if they ever become an issue with the Forsaken.
#Blessed Post.
Forsaken have free will.
Other forsaken also have the free will to end the existence of Forsaken that do not choose to execute that free will wisely.
Derek was never Forsaken, he was just a pawn raised into undeath to force would be traitors to show their true colors and betray the Warchief. ‘Freeing’ him was no great loss as the point of the war campaign was never to recover Derek’s body… It was to test the limits the Dark Lady could push the Horde to before their loyalty would break.
I hope that the general Forsaken population isn’t sad because of Derek. Please, no more crapping on my favorite faction. I mean they are already falling a part from merely clapping, just imagine what the gravitational force of another load would do to their already so so fragile skin.
You can’t fool me, i see the backbone on every single one of y’all.
Free will is not always encouraged, you can say Forsaken don’t have “Free Will” but how do you know if that was encouraged in their societies before those people become Forsaken.
Even if given “Free Will” that doesn’t mean they were free from the emotional effects of dying and being rises as undead, and the things about their past life that cling on to them.
The free will thing is just 50/50, you may have control but you have to first condition yourself in the way you want to be but if the negative aspects of your life get in the way it may the affected how you develop in life gaining unhealthy or dangerous habits as a consequence.
SO are Forsaken metaphysical libertarians? wait what was the question? Not sure what people mean by Free Will here.
From the responses to Derek, the other Forsaken are horrified and appalled because of Derek.
Those are also Kul Tiran undead who regarded Derek as a hero of their nation who deserved his final rest at sea.
I could imagine members of the RAC just shrugging and going, “Yeah. Disposable. So what?”
So? Is the point being made here not that these people were fine being raised as Forsaken until they found out Sylvanas in fact does not respect free will at all?