So I have been thinking about the Forsaken a lot as of late. And I know the topic of Forsaken Children as been thrown around every now and again but I think it is an interesting topic to discuss.
—So are there Forsaken Children?—
No, it does not seems so. There are both lore reasons and game design reasons that they are not included.
Game reasons:
-A forsaken Child would likely not fly in a lot of continues it just a bit too dark.
-Unlike humans, orcs, blood elves, and Draenei, there are not undead children models. The closest we get is ghosts and those can just be used if needed.
Lore reasons:
-The scourge was an army and they raised those that would be useful as soldiers so adults.
-They may not have had the will to break free if they were raised fully.
—So what happened to them?—
(CW: this is were it get morbid)
The scourge was not filled with mercy. Some young may have been turned to Mindless Ghouls. However, most were likely used to make abominations and creatures like Thaddius.
—What this means for the Forsaken—
So the people of Lordaeron were betrayed by their beloved prince. They were raised into undeath to be slaves to the Lich King. Had their minds and bodies mutilated and deformed. Their children were taken from them and were too mutilated and deformed. When they broke free, they had to come to terms with their undeath and a world that hated them. As well as the loss of all of their kids and that they are a part of constructs like Thaddius.
I think this helps highlight the tragedy of the Forsaken. They lost a lot with the fall of Lordaeron and it can help explain their outlook on the world a bit more. Does not excuse their actions but it is something.
So that was a thought that was in my head all morning. What do yall think?
Particularly young Children probably wouldn’t of survived undeath, either their minds would of broken when they died or when being rez’d. And certainly wouldn’t of survived their existence as a monster.
That is why I think this is rather tragic. Even if they were not raised or fused together into an abomination, they still die. Parents now have to live thought their undeath knowing what happen to their children.
There are no Forsaken children, but there are children undead or at least one that I can remember. That was Timmy! He was a child who was scourged. I think undead children would be too unsettling for most players, but lore wise there should be thousands. Considering that the plagued wheat which was eaten by so many in Lordaeron including children. Presumably many of them would have been raised as ghouls, undead Forsaken, and abominations. In fact in Naxxramus you hear the screams of women in children from a boss in there. Logically those poor souls were raised into undeath then stitched together to create that monstrosity. If WOW was listed as over 18+ then I would imagine they’d show children undead, but I think they omitted them for the sake not being to unsettling and to pass by the censors.
I agree, I think the topic is too morbid for bliz to represent in-game. So I think it is an issue they kind of just sweep under the rug, outside of a few quest and stuff.
Exactly, but I imagine they’d look like the undead children in GOT. Imagine the survivors of Lordaeron fighting off undead children, their own children, and also their parents, brothers, sisters and extended families. No wonder Warcraft 3 and Vanilla WoW was considered so dark. Gives me chills imagining survivors struggling thru the nightmare.
Forsaken undead remembering eating their children and seeing them raised into undeath. Then shambling/running towards their families and friends. Not for a hug, but to kill and consume them. I remember reading the short story for Ke’thuzad when he first saw a woman turn undead and crying as she ripped apart her husband and ate him right before him. Just imagine the thought with that being your baby.
Yeah, I’m glad they avoided showing that in game. Showing small Forsaken children living with the knowledge of what they’ve done. Never growing old or maturing. Always remembering what they did to their mommy and daddy. No thanks… nope… That’s too dark even for this Void Elf.
Is there not a Ghoul in Stratholme that was a child? I remember that being the case and either reading about it or watching it on something lore related.
Timmison was infamous for his savagery on the field of battle. Some speculate his sadism stemmed from the ceaseless bullying he endured as a child. Now reborn as a Scourge monstrosity, his mind shattered, he is tormented by those memories, causing him to answer to the name he once loathed: Timmy.
If that’s the one you’re referring to.
There are tiny ghoul battle pets though. So, maybe that’s their fate.
Yep, that’s him. He screams, “Timmy!” when you attack him. Yeesh it makes my skin crawl thinking of such a fate for anyone much less a small child. Tortured forever by the memories of the past. Consumed by rage and despair… Glad they only showed one named child. Much less thousands… I think they should address it in some form in game. I honestly wouldn’t know where such a comment or depiction would be appropriate.
As others have said, the whole topic is a bit too morbid for some. A video game company would be wise to take care. My mind goes to a few extremes.
I can see a moment where Sylvanas unleashed a squad of highly trained Undead Children on the Alliance at the Undercity. It would have been a fun cinematic - to have a few Alliance soldiers take pity on the children, only to be eaten alive, and the Alliance Player is made to chop through a few of 'em.
I also think of the potential for a character like Bart Simpson. I mean, the Forsaken have a few Barts - like Deathgaurd Bartholomew and Leonid Bartholomew - but I mean, a snarky wise cracking Undead kid as an NPC could be fun. Tragic, because he may never age without some further plot contrivance. But could be neat to have an Undead kid on a skateboard helping us kick butt.
He’s not a kid though. I don’t think so at least, if he’s described as being infamous for his savagery in battle. If that is the case I think that kid was going to be trouble undead or not.
If I remember in Warcraft 3 you meet Timmy as a child. He then shows up as an undead and then in Strathome. He was savage in battle as a ghoul since his rage of being called, “Timmy!” A pet peeve in life is all he can say and now respond to. Man, that’s dark. They say nothing is more fearsome or terrifying than a child’s mindset.
I could see Sylvanas using undead children in the battles against the Alliance. It’s enough to make even the most stalwart human paladin shudder as he crushes the child’s skull with his hammer. Though it would cause a nervous breakdown for most Alliance soldiers. That loss of morale could boost the Forsaken’s chances in victory. For the living it’s bad enough to murder your family because they’re your enemy and undead rotting before you. Worse if they’re your children especially small ones. Imagine hearing, “Are you my mommy? Daddy! Don’t! Please! I’m your baby!” As they try to tear you apart… Omg the Scourge using them would be evil, but the free-willed undead… man that’s dark. Not beyond our Dark Lady though…
That’s literally part of the logic behind real world child soldiers. They’re morale breakers in those who fight them, they’re easy to control, and they don’t have many of the developed sense of moral and ethical norms to refuse to do certain things.
Horrible stuff.
Something subtle for worldbuilding, like what you said about the Naxx boss, I think would be fine. People who pay attention to the world and draw conclusions are probably not the same who are going to pearl clutch.
They retconned him being a kid, apparently separate from the living child Timmy you see in WC3.
Having played it recently, I recall seeing Timmy the Ghoul in the Scourge campaign, but then in the Frozen Throne bonus campaign, founding of Durotar, there’s another child named Little Timmy.
That’s one of my points. It must suck for a lot of Forsaken, after being freed from the Lich King, they learn their child was used to make Thaddius. That would be horrific.
I’m finding that one of the unintended side effects of SL is that the horror of the Shadowlands afterlife is making me rethink undeath. We know that unlife in the Shadowlands is one-and-done: die there, and you’re gone for good. Just as mortal as you were in life.
So, if most people only get two lives, I can’t help but start to think: why not go for three if given the chance to be raised as a Forsaken? I mean it seriously: when faced with the fact that they only get one more life, how many denizens of Azeroth would opt for a third (as Forsaken) if given the chance?
I feel like SL is rapidly changing the ethics/morality in Azeroth.
Even better yet the Denizens in the Shadowlands if outside the Shadowlands will return to the Shadowlands to reform like the Demon Hunter Players’ Souls return to the Nether.
Players in the Shadowlands get revived with First One tech in Shadowlands so Allied Races from the Shadowlands won’t be a problem since it is no different from how Demons on Argus are resurrected after dying where it should be permanent.
Undeath’s main lack of ethics is them being enslaved by the Lich King. Necromancy is merely a form of ressurection that badly emulates Maldraxxus Undead which are a more natural looking form.