I’m starting to think blizzard is contradicting themselves on the forsaken and their apparent free will, Since many forsaken deathguards, When killed, Will often thank the player, As if they wanted to be released from undeath. Another Sylvanas lie perhaps?
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I dunno. Being dead kind of owns tbh
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Blizzard has been pushing the “sylvanas is an evil dictator” narative pretty hard lately, we can see with Derek very clearly that she doesn’t care about free will anymore
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It’s either that they all do and Blizz is just very, very bad at showing it reliably or that only some do (Lord Godfrey is clear proof that at least some NPCs do).
On the other hand, the fact that Captain Amalia Stone ran around uselessly until Lilian convinced her to give undeath a try and that Zelling is only helping the Horde to ensure the safety of his family means that not all of the newly-raised are being controlled.
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Go create a brand new Forsaken character and log in with it. Just stand there for a while and watch Daschla, the Val’kyr in the graveyard in Deathknell. As she raises people, she offers them a choice - live a new life in undeath in service to Sylvanas or return to the grave. Some choose to return to the grave.
Sylvanas cannot compel obedience. She is not that powerful. She can reanimate corpses like she did in the Battle of Lordaeron but that’s it. The only one who can compel obedience is the Lich King and even then only because Kil’jaeden gave him those powers.
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I’m looking forward to this story arc devolving into a cliche’d philosophical discussion on the concept of “Free Will”
Straight from Wowpedia:
Upon first being raised, a Forsaken does not have free will. It takes more concentrated magic to release an undead’s mind. Free will is one of the cornerstones of Forsaken culture, with the great capacity for both good and evil that it entails. However, some undead, especially those who die in combat or under extreme stress and are raised soon after, enter into a violent, frenzied state. Undead in this state are easily manipulated and their rage is often directed at the foes of those who raised them. After the effects wear off, if the risen corpse has not been destroyed, they are given the same ultimatum that other Forsaken are offered: join the Dark Lady or return to the grave. Psychological pressure can also be used to turn freshly-raised undead to the side of the Forsaken instead of the one of their former allies. Once sufficient duty has been given, all it takes to be released from Sylvanas’ command is a respectful asking. Though she demands loyalty, she would not hold her agents in thrall.
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I don’t believe that. I’ve seen the cutscene, Hence why i’m stating that blizzard is contradicting their lore.
That may have been true years ago when this area was revamped. Now though? Who knows. Like the OP says, there are a lot of contradictions. Blizzard just makes things up as they go.
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Frankly, it’s a horribly convoluted mess. Lore has really taken a backseat this expansion.
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So basically if they betray her theyll be killed. Which is kind of controlling, but kind of not i suppose, at least not magically but manipulatively. Cause what else would stop them from just lying to them when they’re raise lol.
Altho i feel the original forsaken willingly wanted to serve sylvanas and continue to do so, the new undead may have different thoughts running in their heads or maybe they came to terms with their new (un?)lives.
Eh, To be fair Sylvanas has been rather evil from the start. I can understand the new Wrathgate lore.
Undeads can choose not to be apart of the forsaken but they’ll just end up like that one undead in Silverpine forest with a tent. They’ll be all alone living on the outside fringe of society.
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No, there aren’t contradictions. Keep in mind the vast majority of the Forsaken were raised by the first and second Lich Kings, Ner’zhul and Arthas. In Vanilla through Wrath, the plotline for a new Forsaken character was you were raised as undead at some point during the Third War when Lordaeron fell and you regained your free will.
They were never given a choice that Sylvanas now offers new Forsaken. Because you’re forgetting that, the BC/Wrath timewarp aside, your character starts out just after the Cataclysm so they’re not retconning.
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I agree that lore has been thrown out the window for quite a while. I can’t even stomach the Chronicles, because they’ve retconned lore and then later reversed those retcons.
Writing is bad this expansion. Just look at how wrong the Night Warrior scenario is.
If they wanted to be released from undeath before being killed, what were they supposed to do to demonstrate the freedom of their will? Destroy themselves?
They might have worms in there as well as maggots.
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I mean there’s even one undead apothecary in the eastern plaguelands who says she’s changed and he no longer respects or supports her.
The contradiction is whether or not those that Sylvanas raises actually have free will or not. There are some examples post-Cata where free will is clear (new PCs, Lord Godfrey) but there are some where it’s… suspect (Andorhol).
If she was able to do it, then she definitely would have done it at Lordaeron. She would have much preferred intelligent, sentient undead versus mindless skeletons.