Former Lore Historian explains what their job consisted in

Very interesting (and also not exactly reassuring in some regards, but interesting nonetheless)

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1ae12t2/former_warcraft_historian_here_to_explain_what_it/

The results of my notes would vary; every team and individual responds to feedback differently. Some people I’ve sat with and brainstormed how they could fix the conflict I called out. Other times I was told the potential issue was too minor for anyone to notice or care. And on occasion you have people ignore your comments entirely because it’s too late in the development process or because they think what they’re doing is cool enough to justify the conflict. Sometimes they were right and I was nitpicking, but at the end of the day even if they’re writing lore that states Dwarves have always been born from eggs laid by troggs, I have no power to stop them from doing so. The best I personally could do if I felt particularly strong about it, is point it out to Danuser and say, "yo dawg, you aware of this?"

Basically, it would seem “continuity shouldn’t tie the hands of creators” is still the default/dominant narrative design philosophy

Said former Lore Historian also answered a bunch of questions from various posters in this thread, here are some of the ones that strike me as important :

Q : So someone making a quest could effectively write fanfiction and just because its rule of cool it couldn’t be overturned? Sounds a little disheartening for someone who’s job it is to create and catalog a cohesive world.
A : I can’t speak to the whole quest design process but I do believe that base level Quest Designers need to get their ideas approved at some level, but I’m not sure who approves that and Lore is not a part of it.
From a strictly Lore team perspective though, sometimes yes, that’s what it can look like from afar. If it has some sort of major lore issue, we can trigger another discussion on it, but Blizzard often prefers to treat lore as somewhat malleable rather than strictly concrete and would rather try to massage it than toss it or start over.

Q : Mentioning the Dragonflight Codex, I’ve got to ask. Alexstrasza’s page reiterated that the dragons lost their ability to reproduce after Dragon Soul. Was there any explanation on where all these Dragon Isle’s whelps came from?
A : So I’m going to refrain from going into what the current canon is because I don’t believe it had been properly decided (publicized) by the time I left and I don’t know if anything has changed, especially since basically anything that wasn’t said publicly can change any time.
What I will say is that I believe this to be a failure on my part. I believe I read the first draft very early after DF launch and my initial thought was “Yeah, they can’t lay eggs. That’s what Cata said.” Did some checking online and internally that said mostly the same and the community sentiment at the time was that “maybe these DF eggs were left from the before times?” and I guess I just internalized that and rolled with it. Didn’t realize the issue until much later, by which point I’d forgotten I okayed it in the draft.

Q : Are the specific race data still canon from the RPG-books, like the ages and heights?
A : This is a good question. Generally we treat them as a separate canon from the games., similar to how we treat the film. However we have on occasion pulled from the RPGs when we felt they had something interesting we wanted to utilize. For RP purposes I would say “dubiously canon unless contradicted or reinforced by game lore”.

Q : How did the writers justified the existence of the Void Elves, lore-wise?
A : Couldn’t say sadly. I’d guess “Rule of Cool” was part of it.

Q : Late to the party but I always wanted to know this: Is there a reason there is absolutely no defined population scales etc. In WoW? These seem to be purposefully never included in anything and I’ve always wondered why.
A : I don’t have a definitive answer but my understanding is that keeping these things vague allows more freedom for Narrative and more freedom for whoever takes over the story next.

Q : Is there an opinion on the change to telling “biased perspective” books that’s gone on in recent stories over objective lore sources? Either on the historian team specifically or the overall team. I’ve always wondered how much of that is a top level narrative decision that the team has to go with, or if it’s an overall shift that everyone appreciates.
A : I’ve kind of mentioned it elsewhere, but it allows authors more freedom to write the stories they want to write and not feel like they can’t pursue a cool idea because of what someone wrote years prior.

23 Likes

So what’s the point of having Lore Historians if the teams can and often do blatantly ignore what they don’t like?

19 Likes

They’re ‘a resource to be called upon’ (quoting Eric Covington on this), meaning that if the quest dev explicitly demands it then the Lore Historians will provide them with insights and warn them about potential lore conflicts and inconsistencies, but the Lore Historians themselves don’t have the authority to interfere and edit said quest, nor is their review systematic

Hence why Queen Calia went under the radar, most likely

8 Likes

So, pretty much just reaffirming their comments on a hard continuity would interfere with Ion’s team’s ability to make “cool raids and dungeons”.

25 Likes

Yeah, Blizzard needs to rethink that.

Lore Historians shouldn’t be living wiki’s to be ignored. They should be a part of the QA process, and if you don’t get their check mark, then your stuff goes back to the drawing board.

This explains so much that’s wrong with the story these days.

23 Likes

Not gonna lie.

I don’t know to which extent this policy is due to the writing team’s narrative design philosophy, maybe the insufficient number of Lore Historians also plays a part (especially now that 3 of them have just been laid off)

But it’s actually insane to think that this is how the lore & worldbuilding sausage is made, especially for a game with such a dedicated lore community

Idk man

11 Likes

Like I was saying in the other post, the historian team should be 20 members, easy. Researchers, editors, archivists, and fact checkers. Talking folks with backgrounds in history, anthropology, and literature as just the bare bones start.

11 Likes

If they thought that was something no one would notice or care about … boy, were they wrong!

Also: They don’t want to bother with hard continuity, yet they’ve implemented a hard magic system? Seems like a recipe for disaster.

7 Likes

I figured you guys would be interested in these specific bits (gonna edit the first post and add these for visibility I think) :

Q : So someone making a quest could effectively write fanfiction and just because its rule of cool it couldn’t be overturned? Sounds a little disheartening for someone who’s job it is to create and catalog a cohesive world.
A : I can’t speak to the whole quest design process but I do believe that base level Quest Designers need to get their ideas approved at some level, but I’m not sure who approves that and Lore is not a part of it.
From a strictly Lore team perspective though, sometimes yes, that’s what it can look like from afar. If it has some sort of major lore issue, we can trigger another discussion on it, but Blizzard often prefers to treat lore as somewhat malleable rather than strictly concrete and would rather try to massage it than toss it or start over.

Q : Mentioning the Dragonflight Codex, I’ve got to ask. Alexstrasza’s page reiterated that the dragons lost their ability to reproduce after Dragon Soul. Was there any explanation on where all these Dragon Isle’s whelps came from?
A : So I’m going to refrain from going into what the current canon is because I don’t believe it had been properly decided (publicized) by the time I left and I don’t know if anything has changed, especially since basically anything that wasn’t said publicly can change any time.
What I will say is that I believe this to be a failure on my part. I believe I read the first draft very early after DF launch and my initial thought was “Yeah, they can’t lay eggs. That’s what Cata said.” Did some checking online and internally that said mostly the same and the community sentiment at the time was that “maybe these DF eggs were left from the before times?” and I guess I just internalized that and rolled with it. Didn’t realize the issue until much later, by which point I’d forgotten I okayed it in the draft.

Q : Are the specific race data still canon from the RPG-books, like the ages and heights?
A : This is a good question. Generally we treat them as a separate canon from the games., similar to how we treat the film. However we have on occasion pulled from the RPGs when we felt they had something interesting we wanted to utilize. For RP purposes I would say “dubiously canon unless contradicted or reinforced by game lore”.

Q : How did the writers justified the existence of the Void Elves, lore-wise?
A : Couldn’t say sadly. I’d guess “Rule of Cool” was part of it.

Q : Late to the party but I always wanted to know this: Is there a reason there is absolutely no defined population scales etc. In WoW? These seem to be purposefully never included in anything and I’ve always wondered why.
A : I don’t have a definitive answer but my understanding is that keeping these things vague allows more freedom for Narrative and more freedom for whoever takes over the story next.

Q : Is there an opinion on the change to telling “biased perspective” books that’s gone on in recent stories over objective lore sources? Either on the historian team specifically or the overall team. I’ve always wondered how much of that is a top level narrative decision that the team has to go with, or if it’s an overall shift that everyone appreciates.
A : I’ve kind of mentioned it elsewhere, but it allows authors more freedom to write the stories they want to write and not feel like they can’t pursue a cool idea because of what someone wrote years prior.

7 Likes

The more I learn about Blizzard’s internal workings the more I hate them.

17 Likes

This came from reddit. Unless proven otherwise, I’d assume that it’s a total work of fiction.

3 Likes

Let us hope that with cris metzen back at the front of the franchise thia kind of situation become less frequent.

And I hope that at least the core of the game continues to get verified.

2 Likes

Nothing new there at all. I’m pretty sure in the interviews they actually justified the Void Elves as, “new and cool.”

1 Like

I remember dev itws going on about the fact that they wanted to add a “new flavor of Elves” but still thought I’d include this one cuz idk I think it’s good to know for a fact that there really was nothing more to it than chemically pure Rule Of Cool lol

3 Likes

I appreciate it. I mean, it’s from Reddit so hardly Word of God or anything, but yeah; a little more insight is always nice.

1 Like

It’s this entire exchange that clinches the entire reddit post as pure fiction to me. It’s a patent construction of a story that certain people want to hear as validation of their own paranoid or conspiratorial beliefs.

1 Like

Not sure what you mean here.

If they were doing that I’m pretty sure they would have made up an actual story, rather than basically saying, “we weren’t consulted, but it seems like Rule of Cool.”

2 Likes

I’m saying that the reddit poster made the entire thing up. I’m sure I was pretty clear on that. The writing style is too juevenile to have been done by a professional.

1 Like

I don’t even understand the question here. People may not like the implementation of Void Elves, but they had a perfectly serviceable explanation for their existence.

9 Likes

He responded to my question about Exploring Kalimdor and affirms everything April Copeland told him is true lmao

Sean Copeland never got a final MS before it went to publishing and all the racist tropes that people were criticizing were added after he had seen it

This is bewildering

8 Likes