Eh, most of the time it was given to people more deserving or better players and people got butt hurt over it. ML was never an issue unless you were pugging, which honestly is one of the main reasons they did away with it, they’re lazy and didn’t want to keep fielding the complaints from ninja looters. They should have just stated that joining a pug with ML is a risk you take. The other reason was the multiple runs high end guilds made to build a geared roster quickly b/c of the rng from loots.
The point is, the change was bad, among many changes blizzard has made recently, and we need to keep reminding them that those decisions were garbage or they will keep making them. Especially since listening to feedback is their biggest weakness. The best we can do if they keep up with these trash decisions is just completely unsub for an expansion until they actually start listening to their players. Its becoming painfully clear that the players give extremely valuable feedback that blizzard just ignores b/c of their immense arrogance.
Let’s say hypothetically you did clear Heroic on week 1… just go into Mythic? A guild that rolls Heroic week 1 can make decent progress in Mythic. I fail to see how slowing down progression for everyone just so your borderline guild can enter Mythic an arbitrary amount of weeks later is ideal. Or, again, join a guild that uses personal loot if that’s what YOU prefer. Don’t decide it’s what’s best for everyone.
True. Its also true that those guild use M+ solely as a means to loot trade in heroic to then go on and progress in mythic, often clearing it within 1-2 weeks. Its not a bad thing that removing the gearing issue of having to spam m+ in order to only split raid heroic, often with 8+ clears just to trade gear to the mythic clear team.
The end result is being these toons clearing heroic week 1 and then progressing into mythic, using the gear they looted from heroic. It removes the constant need for blizz to release content thats been balanced around the entire guild having access to a completly heroic geared toon before they step foot into mythic.
No, it isn’t. An overwhelming majority of guilds don’t clear Mythic in only a couple weeks even if they cleared Heroic on the first NIGHT it was released. Let’s look at some data on WoWProgress:
Mythic Ny’alotha released Jan 28. By Feb 4 (2 weeks later) only TWO guilds in the entire world killed N’Zoth. Limit and Method. How about 2 months? Barely 150 guilds. How many guilds as of now, nearly 8 months later, are at least 11/12M working towards cutting edge? 3422. So .05% of Mythic guilds clear the raid in 2 weeks.
Correct, and they did so by completly avoiding having to gear in mythic raids first, by loot trading split runs. Did you stop to think even for a second that blizz is changing the process so more than 150 guilds will be able to clear the raid within a resonable timeframe due to being able to tune it better based on ther fact players cant loottrade and overgear it in the first 2 weeks?
Whats blizzards past history - over tune bosses for world first then nerf them so others can clear?
I appreciate having the current loot protections in place to prevent folks from being taken advantage of. I’m sorry but I do not support master looting ever returning.
What if the guild suddenly has a change of policy one day? You may look for another guild, but you would likely be at a disadvantage with that next guild since you usually have to work for some time. And the policy can change at any time.
Thousands if not millions of people did their due diligence and found a home in guilds where master loot WASN’T abused so it’s clearly feasible.
I think its better if I can’t be abused at all to begin with.
I’d argue that personal loot councils feel far worse than master loot ever did because now you’re trading away items that are in your bags.
They are also the best players in the world, raid 14-16 hours a day, and spend hundreds of millions of gold every tier buying BoEs. It’s laughable to that loot trading is the sole reason they clear so fast.
Blizzard has said they only want the world first race to take a week because they appreciate that those players are taking time off work to participate.
Disregarding 1 and 2, does it make sense in your mind to delete an entire loot system in an attempt to stop 40 people out of millions from clearing content, what, a week faster than they otherwise would?
You answered your own question. The bosses that get the biggest nerfs get them before most guild ever even reach them. It wouldn’t matter if they start at that difficulty or not.
Removing master loot slows down progression for your average guild that doesn’t do split runs. Period. No if ands or buts about it.
Seems the real hogs are the people so obsessed with loot that you honestly believe a majority of loot councils care more about gearing themselves than progression.
“I DIDN’T GET EVERY ITEM I WANTED THE FIRST TIME I HIT NEED??? CLEARLY A CORRUPT COUNCIL FEEDING THEIR INNER CIRCLE. DELETE MASTER LOOT! ME ME ME MY REWARDS MY LOOT GIVE ME SHINY ITEM”
It isn’t the fact that somebody didn’t get their loot or all the loot they wanted in one go its that there will be situations where a controlling loot council is going effectively lock people out of loot due to corruptive cherry picking because we as a collective species cannot be trusted not screw people over from time to time.
Why do we want to risk these bad experiences happening to players or worse new players? I can’t imagine a more toxic way to turn players off from playing Warcraft despite the community finding new ways to do so anyway.
The fact is that many players will never join a guild again due to loot drama they experienced in multiple guilds. They would rather never do group play again than be forced to join a guild where you don’t find out until too late which controlling members are in it for themselves and see your loot as their reward.
Removing all safeguards from the majority of players and enabling every possible abuse for the players with the most power is really not different from admitting you want my loot and you’d take it from me if you could.
Situation:
Player A is a star on the raid team. He is also known for being obnoxious and demanding to those he considers his inferiors, but people put up with this and sometimes even cover for him because they need his mad raiding skillz.
Player A has been farming a dungeon for [item] for a month. Player A invites guild member Player B to join the group, because they need a fifth.
[Item] drops for Player B. Player A asks for it. What are Player B’s options?
Say no and look for a new guild, because this one is now poison to him.
Say yes and look for a new guild, because this one is now poison to him.
Say yes, knowing that [item] will probably never drop for him again, and if the situation arises again he will be expected to hand over to Player A the item he wants.
It sounds like a lose lose situation for Player B.
Congratulations! You’re the millionth commenter that completely ignored my point and formulated a straw man that’s easier to defeat. Check is in the mail.
Again, I am not on a council so I couldn’t take loot for myself even I wanted to. ML should come back because it is best for the GROUP when you stop thinking of loot as a reward for individuals and start thinking of it as a tool to make the raid as a whole stronger. That’s the difference between our mindsets on the most fundamental level. inb4 “it’s impossible for anyone to think differently than me. You’re just a greedy loot hog who wants power over others” for the 1,000,001st time.
Can ML be abused? Yes, but guilds who abuse it are a small minority whether you want to believe it or not. And if it happens to you once or twice get over it. **** happens. This is an MMO and you shouldn’t expect removal of freedom to the point that you can never have a negative human interaction.
A real world example of something that can be abused is screen sharing software like anydesk. Scammers use it to hold their victims’ PCs hostage, but that same software is invaluable for people collaborating on a project from different locations.
Sure. It’s easy to ignore criticism when you are tunnel vision focused on what you want.
The situation I gave you is a player who is not even a raid member being given a choice of giving up an item that is a big upgrade to him to the maximum dirtbag in the guild who will probably get him kicked if he says no.
This is the same abuse you want to enable. The idea that “guilds wouldn’t do that” is a self-serving lie.
Getting kicked from a guild multiple times after having your loot stolen to benefit the most entitled member of a raid team you don’t even belong to is not something anybody should have to put up with.
A system shouldn’t be implemented that allows YOU to abuse anybody you want to when you want somebody else’s upgrade. The fact that this is an MMO absolutely does not mean that YOU and every dirtbag in the game have the right to help themselves to anybody’s loot they want and that player has no choice to put up with your predations.
The “freedom” to break into someone’s house is not actually an option in real life. Nor should you or your best buddy be able to help yourselves to somebody else’s personal loot.
