I’m mostly bringing that up as something that could be inserted into the existing game-mode in lieu of creating an entire new system. Irrelevant to the spirit of the thread, but nonetheless.
Carries are already commonplace, even at season’s start. Preventing them is almost an impossible endeavor for really no gain, and I don’t think leavers would become less commonplace when you make it permissible for groups to spend hours on a dungeon and still advance. The young are impatient and the old have things to do.
I also think the same, I should rather add instead that it is for time, be it for wipes, or the end time is as a result to expel you from the dungeon, something like that so that I am more responsible in not dying.
Any mechanic that forces party members to separate from one another would be sufficient, provided it put melee far enough out of range. Living Bomb, Fixates with boss cleaves, etc.
The general idea I have is that for those people, there would be Mythic+ and its pace and timer.
Yeah, what I’m saying is that your going to alienate half of the specs instantly with this. Why would anyone bring a holy priest or MW monk when a hpally does 3x the damage. Why would you take a multi dot class like spriest or moonkin when they will lower your rewards for having worse single target dps?
My answer to this would be that if you do that and your DPS nuke the Intro Boss down, resulting in a higher difficulty for the party, the trash would become insurmountable because you can’t deal enough damage to it, and you run out of rezzes.
That’s not a perfect answer though, because it means trash might have to be as difficult if not more difficult than bosses. It’d be tough to balance for that.
Could just set a difficulty threshold at which trash becomes immune to CC, I suppose. That seems like a machete to a situation that calls for a scalpel, though. Maybe reduce CC durations based on difficulty?
So you basically add a timer to trash. Or what you’d do is have 3 mages play arcane for bosses, then all swap frost for the dungeon so they can endlessly kite.
Not really. Just forces you to think about how and when you apply your hard CC and limit the size of your pulls if you’re going to need to keep your CC game tight.
They wouldn’t be able to to change to Frost if they killed the Intro Boss as Arcane.
As an aside, Turnberry, thank you for asking me really difficult questions to answer. I’m glad someone is making me think about these things.
No what we don’t want is the GO GO GO mentality that comes with M+, but to still get adequate rewards to what we are doing and a progression system that does not yet again force us into M+, because if you just want a dungeon with no timer, than run heroic.
But if you want a progressive dungeon system that offers iLVL upgrades without the timer, than you are going to need to time the first boss to see how strong the group is, see how strong to make the enemies, see what objectives you can throw in.
Otherwise you will just get players going snail pace, taking 3+ hours per dungeon and walking out with what loot exactly? Without some way for the game to decide how hard to make it, players would than choose their difficulty, or have yet another key based system where you are limited to what difficulty and what dungeon based on the available keys.
The whole key system to begin with is terrible, and if they introduce the first boss system it would be better for M+ than keys.
With an intro boss players could smash it out, pop lust and all CD’s, get a real quick time and a high iLVL loot reward, than it would possible to take an hour or two to finish, or more if you fail at certain parts. I can tell you now, there is no one in this entire game who would want to spend 3 hours in the current dungeons.
Players from old used to spend 3 hours in a dungeon because that is how some of them were made, designed to take time, not designed to waste time. That is what made the original dungeons better, they were designed to take X time and not have artificial layers of difficulty to extend time and make it feel harder.
Yeah I don’t know man, I get where you’re coming from but honestly, I see a system like this being counter productive to what you’re trying for. People don’t want the anxiety of a timer in M+, but the first thing you’re proposing is a dps/healing check that will cause people to get kicked and groups disbanding minutes into the dungeon because they won’t get the rewards they want.
Honestly, if it were possible to offer scaling rewards without a DPS/Healing check, I’d go that route. It’s a necessary evil. And you might be right, it might end up being a toxic show. I’m just trying to offer those who want this niche, who want to run dungeons in this way with their friends, an option to do so.
M+ would offer the same levels of rewards at a much faster pace, so I think a lot of the people who would disband groups just won’t bother with this mode.
Fun because it was massive, had lots to explore, many bosses to kill, different strategies, you didn’t just load Method Dungeon Tools and follow the arrows.
You could skip this boss or that pack, you could take a different route and kill whatever bosses you wanted. The dungeon didn’t end when you had killed the last boss (well it kind of did if you had nothing left to kill), if ended when you had killed what your group needed and wanted and had spent enough time there. you didn’t have to kill 4/5 bosses to ensure loot.
The whole mentality of dungeon runs on the design, implementation and player mindset running them is that there should be 4/5 per run bosses and it should take half and hour or so. They are all just copy paste of each other in a way now.
Way too hard to judge individual performance and way too easy to cheese it.
Someone a while ago suggested this and how interrupts could be a way to judge performance. But if I tell you to interrupt first, then I snipe your interrupt and you end up using it on nothing, I get the credit even though I was wrong.
show. I’m just trying to offer those who want this niche, who want to run dungeons in this way with their friends, an option to do so.