Is the mentality behind “FOR THE HORDE!” a legitimate reason for Blizzard to not move forward with cross-faction PvE?
Over the years, I’ve seen these players argue steadfastly against cross-faction PvE. The rationale extends from something as cringe-worthy as: OMG. I DON’T WANT TO GROUP WITH ALLIANCE PANSIES to something that is a bit more rational like: faction wars are the center theme of WARcraft.
What does everyone think? Are these reasons solid enough to not move forward with cross-faction PvE?
Personally, I don’t think they are. At the simplest level, I just want to be able to play with all my friends that I have met over the years without having to spend extra time preparing an extra alt.
My take is that the faction war can go ahead and play out within the lore but players should be given the option to play with each other if they wish to.
It’s a legitimate reason for Blizz to implement cross faction in a good way and not just go “ok, we fixed it so you can group up with the other faction have fun”.
At this point, I’ve come to accept Cross Faction PVE will be a thing eventually. But I would prefer it not be because I like the faction lines. Keep in mind, I play both factions. I don’t think it has anything to do with “FOR THE HORDE” so much as it does people actually thinking the faction divide should be maintained because it is / was the way things have been for so long.
I’ll put it this way. I think it’s normal that we have a faction divide. I think it’s normal people fight over any number of things. I think it’s way less normal / way less believable that every 2 years we have some kind of all consuming monstrosity coming after us again and forces us to begrudgingly hold hands again. I’d much rather we kill each other for normal purposes and the faction divide be expanded upon and give people reasons on both sides to actually appreciate their side and want to experience both sides.
That’s just me though. While I love “FOR THE HORDE”, I don’t think it’s anywhere near enough of a thing to call it an ‘outdated mentality’.
Your name is familiar…I’m almost certain we’ve debated this topic years ago. At least you have a rational take on it and I can respect that.
I do agree with you that the previous direction of the game should have taken us deeper into the faction divide rather than push us towards global threats. There’s probably no realistic path back towards though since we are all titan-slaying “champions” now.
Even if they do away with the faction war completely, there’s nothing stopping anyone from running around in game yelling “FOR THE HORDE” if they choose to.
Yeh, agreed. The box has been opened, and there’s no way of going back. That’s why I accept cross-faction PVE will be a thing. And realistically, I’m alright with it so long as it’s just dungeons and raids. But if they remove the divide entirely, and humans are walking around Orgrimmar, and orcs around Stormwind, I would be mighty miffed.
I mostly care about the story of Warcraft and the thematic elements at its core, so, personally, it’s a no from me.
I find the idea that one “tribe” of peoples that are starving for resources and living space(Horde), and another “tribe” struggling to maintain what resources and opportunities they have(Alliance), and that they intrinsically cannot both get their way, and therefore are in conflict to be a really visceral theme. It’s ultimately the reason why humans(IRL), even benevolent, good natured ones will inevitably be embroiled in conflict.
It’s not only a deeply tragic, and human theme, but the original theme that Warcraft was founded on. Beyond this, it allows players to get a taste of tribalism and wartime pride in a safe way, while all at the same time allowing the narrative to humanize your opponent in the face of existential threat, and find common ground while maintaining a “tribal” identity.
I don’t know, to me it’s just not worth discarding all of that nuance and fertile ground for storytelling simply because Blizz has fumbled it in the past, and that people can’t be bothered to level an alt to play with their friends, but I acknowledge that as entirely my own subjective opinion.
I do wonder if some middleground couldn’t be reached, though. Perhaps allowing players to complete “faction neutral” content together, or perhaps even designing some content to explicitly be done together.
But completely dissolving the faction conflict is a binary way of looking at things, where, as with most things, a nuanced approach would be for the better.
The alliance/Horde race divide is integral to the World’s framing and story, and having faction/race/class distinctions adds complexity, variety and flavor to the game.
Ion does not say anything about moving forward with general cross-faction PvE.
The interviewer and Ion talk about raiding very specifically.
From the article:
GamesBeat: Talking about community requests and maybe stubbornness, is something like cross-faction raiding a bit more on the radar as a possibility these days?
Hazzikostas: I’d say that is a bit more on the radar, yes. That’s one of those areas where, a lot of things to solve, a lot of things to figure out to make it happen, but at the end of the day, if Jaina and Thrall are working alongside each other in the raid, why can’t Alliance and Horde players also work alongside each other in that raid, especially when we know it’s going to solve a lot of the social problems people are grappling with? Particularly trying to keep a high-end Alliance guild together in North America or a Horde one in Oceania.
Personally, I was rabidly against any type of cross-faction play but, after reading multiple posts making good arguments for it, both lorewise and playwise, I no longer see a problem if they allow it for raids and dungeons thru the finder. And someone said the language barrier can be circumvented out-game by using Discord.
Then why did you pick a two faction game? And then play on both factions?
Personally, I don’t think saving you time preparing an opposite-faction alt to play with your opposite-faction friends is a good enough reason, or even just a good reason, to break one of the core framing devices of story.
And from a business point of view, I would see it as a reason to keep the faction divide as more alts equals more time the game which equals longer subs which equals more money.
It’s outdated only in the sense that most people playing today weren’t there at the beginning. The concept in itself I don’t think is outdated and is still the heart and soul of the game.
Most of those players who carried with them the spirit of the game at it’s earliest stages are long gone, outnumbered or worn out. So, yeah you might as well cater to this new generation if that’s what they want. What’s the use of hanging on if there’s only a few left from that time. It’s already a way different game than it used to be.
As someone from that time, I still think a soft reboot could bring some of that life back in having the Horde/Alliance team up and out of that action causes a third faction to spring up and it reboots back to the beginning where there is fresh conflict and a whole new generation can grow and experience through that new beginning but it would take a dev team that actually has passion to see it through that it’s done right and all they seem to care about is raiding so I wouldn’t expect that to happen.
Horde and Alliance have made alliance together two times now: Legion and SL. It’s time to remove the sides and lump all the races together. Then pvp and world pvp with whoever you want, including your own races
They can’t really take this game back into some kind of a real serious faction war again. It just wouldn’t work since it has been such a joke for so long now. So, may as well bring down the faction walls asap!
