They can dps as Ret and are currently higher in damage then Frost Mages, Sub Rogues, Warriors and BM Hunters.
Sub Rogue, Frost Mage, and BM hunter are lower than Ret Paladin.
Damage dealing rogue, mage and hunter are above damage dealing paladin when all these classes are properly specd for max damage. This is what matters, not individual specs.
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Sure we can buff ret damage, but they lose LoH, HoS, HoF, divine protection, exc. In return ok?
Ret is perfectly fine as is. They bring a lot of strong utility. If your trying to play a retardin and not use any of that utility, thats your own fault. Divine sacrifice/guardian + bubble is going to be amazing in hard modes ulduar for unavoidable damage. Hand of sacrifice on a tank as an extra CD to block a burst damage ability, exc.
They are not weak once you look at utility as well.
Will you want more than 1 or 2 ret paladins in a raid? No not really, but its more than acceotable to have some of them in the raud for extra damage reduction, threat reduction on a top pumper, exc. Yes prot and holy can bring these things as well, but ret passively heals the raid while dpsing as well. They are not bad, they just have a higher focus on utility than raw damage.
2 Likes
But I want to play ret
It is pretty disappointing because ret paladin reputation at the start of real WOTLK was they were OP, but because of how classic is handled they are crap. I don’t even want to touch my paladin if ret is this bad
And ret has more utility and raid CDs.
A hunter cant make the entire raid a 20% damage reduction.
Nor can a mage
Nor can a rogue
Hunter and rogue cant become immune to all damage, and if a mage does do so he cant keep damaging while doing it.
A hunter can only reduce his own threat
A hunter and rogue can misdirect some threat but they cant reduce a targets threat by a massive amount
Mages cant redirect threat values at all
Rogue mage and hunter dps rotation doesnt heal the raid.
Ret has advantages and disadvantages. Just like every other dps.
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No they really aren’t. Ret has massive utility options for the raid. If you want to focus only on big D numbers then you can reroll, because ret paladin isnt just damage. They have utility to bring as well.
2 Likes
Why would you count Justicar as Prot but not as Ret lol. Justicar is more ret than prot.
The kind of obvious retort is if you care so much about the utility than you should be playing as holy, there’s no reason to be specifically ret you do 30% the damage of everyone else it feels awful and gimped compared to how real WOTLK was. Who would have guessed DPS spec would care about DPS too
Was ret actually ever good? People claiming a lot that in original WotLK ret was good all the way through and they got nerfed in t10, but my memory is very different. I remember ret as being incredibly mediocre and never in contention for even appearing on my dps meters. Looking through old videos I see rets fighting for 12th place in many of these fights in Uld and some in ToC in top tier guilds.
I also don’t see any of these huge nerfs that paladins supposedly received in response to their t10 set.
Am I missing something?
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They are just upset because they have to wait to scale and dont want to even consider the fact they have amazing utility.
justicar is just a prot offtank.
My honest opinion is that no one should have their spec be completely unviable (as in, bringing retribution paladins in Ulduar will make encounters significantly harder) regardless of what they picked, and no one should be chastised for not knowing that retribution paladins were massively nerfed towards the end of WoTLK to accommodate for an overpowered set effect.
I am a perpetual meta chaser (I played a warrior and a mage in Classic, a prot paladin in WoTLK, raided as an arms warrior in legion…) but I don’t think people should be forced into meta classes to be useful in raids.
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Well put.
All the Ret’s get upset when I say they’re in a great spot and are completely viable. The ones making the points in these threads are in the 95+ parse range, literally some of the best. It makes me wonder what the cut off is for viability in their eyes. Again, these are some of the best logged Ret’s in the game. (Looking at you, Whitco!)
Will changing their damage output make them more attractive to a raid? They wear plate, share tier sets with substantially better specs (and classes that can also DPS), and weapons that could go to better classes.
Damage output has nothing to do with my thoughts on Ret’s and I have changed my mind on the issue, fully support Ret’s getting whatever the hell they want, because it simply won’t change a Raid Leaders mind on whether or not to bring a Ret to a raid-which seems to be what their concern is with Ulduar coming up.
I want 1-2 Ret’s regardless of their damage in my 25M’s. 20% of the raid being a Paladin right off the snap-which is why Blizzard blue posted they’re not looking into it.
No, no they are not… Frost Mage, Sub Rogue, Warriors, Bm Hunters 3 of which are ONLY DPS classes are below Ret currently…
I’d say Ret is doing very well having 3 viable specs 1 mid/low pack!
h ttps://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1015
Sucks for us Pure DPS that want to play BM, Frost, or Sub… Guess we can shove it so you can have 3 Awesome Specs?
This… ALL THIS!!!
Ret has so much and they whine like babies because of the dps meter… Holy Bat Guano stop crying…
Paladins are NOT DPS class, you are a Holy Warrior healing, Buffing, rezzing, and have the ability to DPS!
The fact that you don’t understand the difference between specs and roles invalidates everything you say.
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They were, Divine Storm could global 3-4 people it was ridiculous and DKs had a glyph of Death and Decay that feared and stunned people within it allowing them to play wack a mole!
These were not good for the game!
I understand I have 3 DPS specs 2 of which are good and 1 is not! I also understand Paladin a Healing Tank Utility class has 2 good specs and one is not so great but STILL better than my 3rd spec in the same job!
You rolled Paladin, if you wanted to play DPS you should have rolled a DPS class!
You dont get to be best Healer, Best Tank and Awesome DPS sorry not sorry!
Every class in the game is a dps class when specd for it. You don’t understand this game at all.
Hybrid classes, like paladin/shaman/druid should be at most 5% behind pure dps classes at max performance.