I want to raid. I used to love it. It requires exhausting, temporary social connections that I just can’t be bothered with anymore. It requires far and away too much activity outside of raiding, in order to raid. I miss the coordination and the teamwork but the social and mechanical pre-requisites are just too much.
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I don’t like PuGs
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I didn’t say from world first mythic raiders and my argument is that raiding guilds would not exist in the masses that they do if it was not an enjoyable experience. You seem to think because YOU didn’t like your guild that everyone else must have also disliked it, or that because YOU don’t like what raiding is that everyone else thinks it’s toxic but force themselves to do it. The gear you get is hardly worth it to so something you don’t enjoy. M+ and Visions offer just as good. If you dislike the amount of pulls bosses take, that is not a summarization of raiding guilds. That is you not liking the challenge of raiding. You are conflating your own personal issues with everyone else being toxic.
Not wanting to raid is fine but you should feel ridiculous for pointing fingers at the people that do. Trying to push a narrative that people shouldn’t raid because it’s toxic is pretty cringe
Time constraints.
My job effectively prevents me from having any meaningful time for raiding (on my terms, aka not pugging), despite really wanting to.
I’ve always had a blast raiding, and it’s usually something petty involving people, not the raid, that drove me away from it.
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I’ll have to disagree with that, because it’s like saying the LoL community Can’t be overall toxic because so many people still play it.
I raided up until MoP, and I’d been on 4 different servers by then because of transferring for a raiding guild that accepted my application. Yep, applications were the first bad thing of any raiding guild. You would have to apply, hope they cared enough to look at your application and or needed your class/spec. Then getting to know them and if you’ll be a good fit, which consisted of quick team speak or ventrillo chats or in-game talking with members. Which is whatever, I honestly never made a ‘really good friend’ from any of the guilds I’ve ever been in so I can’t tell you how frequent an occurrence that is; I’ve never felt part of a ‘group’ with guilds that had enough of common interest or really enjoyed chatting with. Every raiding guild I was in seemed like it had a clique of people that always hung out and did stuff together and the rest that mostly did their own thing outside of raids.
Now to the other part, raiding itself. Seeing the boss fights, being in the zone, picking up on some extra lore and experiencing it all for the first time was always great. More so way back then, because no huge datamining and no basically just watching someone else do it since so few videos on stuff were made while content was current. It was always great going into a raid and not knowing what to expect and perhaps progressing a quest and listening to boss dialogue. I don’t really feel the need to go into a raid myself anymore, especially since by the time it actually comes out everything’s been seen.
Now progression raiding, for me, I don’t really like it. Pulling a boss over and over for hours at a time, perhaps getting nothing for it just doesn’t appeal to me. It sort of used to, because there was just 1 difficulty for the bosses and maybe a hardmode. But now it’s just fighting the same boss but slightly different, and getting wiped either via numbers or people messing up consistently just not my cup of tea. The other downside of raiding for me is sitting on voice coms, I strongly dislike voice coms. I have sound sensitivity so having extra layers of noise going on just truly messes with me, people talking, sound of typing and clicking, sound of someone eating, kids in the background etc. I definitely prefer text, and I’ve honestly never been in a raiding guild that didn’t mandatory voice coms.
So for me it comes down to, too many things I dislike about it, never found ‘that guild’ that felt like I fit with the main raiding group or anything of that sort, and never found one that doesn’t basically force voice coms. I could Find the time to raid, and dedicated either my off-days or after work but just too many hoops for a lackluster experience when the only thing I’d really get out of it is gear. Which, as nice as it would be, isn’t enough to tempt me.
Killing bosses just doesn’t feel ‘epic’ anymore, and getting into the raids themselves isn’t as interesting when you’ve already seen it elsewhere.
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Before bfa it was because I felt it would be too difficult to get into, to find a group, or even that I may not play well enough to be successful. For the first few months of this season it was because I just didn’t have time.
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That’s not a fair 1:1 comparison though. Queueing for a league game is like queueing for LFR, which can similarly be a very toxic experience despite being the so called answer to the organized raiding problem. However, raids are more like organized in-houses or tournaments in that you know exactly who you are playing with and how many times you will be playing; you volunteer to play with these people x amount of times a week. I would argue that League IN THAT SENSE is not overall toxic just like raiding isn’t. But when you add anonymity to it with the queue systems, sure. The point though is that the positives massively outweigh the negatives
As for your group; you not meshing with a team doesn’t make the team toxic, which is all I am saying.
And I personally don’t get the beef vs applications. How else can guilds find people?
I didn’t include the stories of toxicity, but sure. First server I was on had very few guilds even raiding, only one that was really doing any progressing and that fit time schedules. They refused any applications of people that hadn’t had prior raid experience from Vanilla. This was the start of BC, so Karazhan and all that. They were notoriously elitist and soured the server with their attitude in public chats.
Transferred for another guild that accepted application, raided with them for a Tier before the guild disbanded from drama of main clique in the guild giving loot to each other often more for PvP reasons, people leaving/being recruited by the other main raiding guild on the server and not being able to recruit enough people to fill a roster.
Another transfer, raided Naxx and what not but again a little main clique that served themselves and often had to resort to recruiting off-server to get people to fill rosters. Progressing with Hard modes in Ulduar when the GM+Co-GM took everything from the gbank and transferred to another server for a further along progression guild.
Another transfer for Cata, which I honestly only raided for one Tier. This guild ended up having the raid leader+GM ninja a bunch of drops and gkick everyone and then continuing to try and recruit people not knowing of the guilds rep(or didn’t care) as the GM+officers really only cared bout getting gear for PvP.
This doesn’t include the amount of guilds I’ve trialed with that 1. didn’t give trials any chance at loot, through multiple weeks of raids and were in general treated far more harshly than core-raid members and were often quite unfriendly to people that were not in their clique.
Can’t tell you how many people have had their time, and money wasted by guilds like that. We’re supposed to just keep going through guilds until we find ‘the right one’. But in quite a few years of playing and not having that happen, it feels kinda silly to hear that honestly. Especially when trialing can take up to a month depending on the guild, and you’re often expected to put in more than the core raiders during that time.
I didn’t include the stories of toxicity, but sure. First server I was on had very few guilds even raiding, only one that was really doing any progressing and that fit time schedules. They refused any applications of people that hadn’t had prior raid experience from Vanilla. This was the start of BC, so Karazhan and all that.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with guilds having standards and screening before accepting apps. If a company tells you their requirements before you submit a resume and you don’t meet those qualifications but still apply… who’s fault is it when you don’t get the job?
ransferred for another guild that accepted application, raided with them for a Tier before the guild disbanded from drama of main clique in the guild giving loot to each other often more for PvP reasons, people leaving/being recruited by the other main raiding guild on the server and not being able to recruit enough people to fill a roster.
This is an example of why guilds wouldn’t exist if it was an overall bad experience to raid in one.
Another transfer, raided Naxx and what not but again a little main clique that served themselves and often had to resort to recruiting off-server to get people to fill rosters. Progressing with Hard modes in Ulduar when the GM+Co-GM took everything from the gbank and transferred to another server for a further along progression guild.
Another transfer for Cata, which I honestly only raided for one Tier. This guild ended up having the raid leader+GM ninja a bunch of drops and gkick everyone and then continuing to try and recruit people not knowing of the guilds rep(or didn’t care) as the GM+officers really only cared bout getting gear for PvP.
These are more examples of why guilds wouldn’t exist if it was an overall bad experience to raid in one. There are also ways to see guild activity to see how many people are being removed or leaving guilds. Just as guilds screen you, you can screen guilds.
This doesn’t include the amount of guilds I’ve trialed with that 1. didn’t give trials any chance at loot, through multiple weeks of raids and were in general treated far more harshly than core-raid members and were often quite unfriendly to people that were not in their clique.
It is a guilds job to make sure the raid succeeds. Giving loot to trials over promoted raiders is unfair to the 19 other people in the raid when the trial may not pass their trial period. Loot does not belong to the individual, it belongs to the raid. You have to have a team mentality when you try to raid; it’s not solo content. If you were treated “harshly,” perhaps you were not doing well in your trial or were causing disturbances to the 19+ other people in the raid? Poor effort is also toxic
Can’t tell you how many people have had their time, and money wasted by guilds like that. We’re supposed to just keep going through guilds until we find ‘the right one’. But in quite a few years of playing and not having that happen, it feels kinda silly to hear that honestly. Especially when trialing can take up to a month depending on the guild, and you’re often expected to put in more than the core raiders during that time.
It is especially easy now to find atmospheres you may want to be apart of with the abundance of VODs and streams. When you trial, you are trialing the guild as much as they are trialing you. If you don’t like what you see, you don’t have to stay. Fact of the matter is though is there are more people choosing to stay in raiding guilds because it is an overall awesome experience.
Alternatively, ask about loot rules before applying. It’s odd to complain about GMs and officers wanting loot but then complaining why trials are not a priority for loot. Perhaps teams are your issue.
Social anxiety, and the fact that my disability doesn’t allow me to use voicechat. Also I’m no spring chicken so my response times ain’t what they used to be.
I’m very happy that LFR and LFD exist for me, but lately they’ve been way overtuned for their target players.
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I like raiding, but I dont like showing up every week.
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Sincerely not being disrespectful here, but that sounds like a pipe dream.
It’s not at all
Continuously making new characters, I have quite a few 445s that could raid, but I’m bringing up this druid instead. Tried to raid in my other guild on one of those characters, got told there was a waiting list to get on the waiting list then couldn’t work out an alternate night that worked for all of us, so also that.
To quote Groucho Marx, “I can believe you, or my lying eyes.”
Perhaps you could elaborate on your opinions?
tl;dr Because I hate BfA.
I was a raider on my main throughout all of Legion and I ran M+ all the time because I found it fun.
I don’t doubt the raiding in BfA is good, it’s just working up to get raid ready in this expansion has never felt more demotivating and boring compared to Legion.
However, I will 100% be returning to raiding and M+ next expansion, and I definitely want to get to the farthest you can go in Torghast. I just got path finder pt 1 and 2 in BfA and called it a wrap at that point, I don’t intend on getting exalted rep or any other completionist content in BfA whatsoever.
As of now now, I’m just doing low level PvP and leveling alts for each class for both factions until Shadowlands releases.
signs up for tier to get AOTC
whisper: link AOTC
This is why I haven’t done a lot.
“Who DO Want to Raid but DON’T Raid, Why Not?”?
Pain. I did some Normal raiding in Legion with a great crew, however they split ways between Legion and Battle for Azeroth. Been drifting here and there ever since.
It’s harder than you think to find folks who honestly understand that you may have to go AFK out of the blue, no warning. These guys & gals were legit though, they had zero issue with me just doing the best I could and dropping randomly.
I miss those great bastards.
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It’s not an opinion. There are toxic guilds but the system as a whole isn’t toxic. You can very easily find a guild that will full clear at minimum heroic on a 2 day a week schedule. I’m progressing on mythic nzoth on a 2 day a week schedule.
So I was talking about a particular point of your original post that I replied to …
Not really a thing there are toxic guilds but as long as you are reasonably quick at learning to get out of fire there’s no reason you can’t raid casually
… specifically the bolded part.
Can’t see being able to progress in mythic nzoth and be ‘raiding casually’. That’s what I was hoping you’d elaborate on.