Flying: Why must we wait until 8.2?

Community General Discussion
87
11/05/2018 09:35 PMPosted by Crackbunny
11/05/2018 09:29 PMPosted by Charax
Proposal:

War Mode players will be permanently grounded but they now get an exorbitant farming & reward bonus so that they are more efficient than flyers.

Would you accept that so you can fly early? Hmmm? Or do you just want to lord over the efficiency bonus while cheekily telling us we can stay on our ground mounts?

Put your gold where your mouth is and let’s see how hypocritical some might be.


That would make absolutely no sense to implement. You choosing to stay grounded is your choice and nobody else's. You don't deserve rewards for it.

And kindly !@#$ off with War Mode being active forcing you to stay out of the sky. I will take my War Mode and I will take my flying, together.


Looking at your achieves, it doesn’t look like you War Mode at all.

And what’s wrong with the proposal? It let’s you fly early. You just won’t be as efficient as a War Mode grounded player. Your choice not to WM grounded. ;)

See how this works? Easy to flip this argument around on you guys and see how you answer it.
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guess i'll say it just put flying back to the old way, let us pay for the unlock with gold and be done with it, there was really no sense in deviating from that way in the first place as not everyone has the time to even do pathfinder depending on there life style.
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90
You think you want flying but you dont.
3 Likes
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11/05/2018 09:39 PMPosted by Crackbunny
11/05/2018 09:32 PMPosted by Charax
It seems that pro-flyers claim differently though. Thank you for this admission and no, forum whining doesn’t equate to majority. Content players don’t spam post threads to say how content they are.

You should know that.


It's a matter of record that even I am aware of, despite having left the game at the end of MoP, that trying to remove flying wholesale caused such an enormous backlash that they had to renege on that intended path nearly immediately. The single largest outpouring of passion in the history of the game is a pretty good indicator of what the majority wants. The only tragedy is that pathfinder was not met with the same outcry and managed to snake its way into the game, effectively removing flying in any case.


Sure, let’s say 30% of the players were upset about the flying change back in WoD. Yeah, the forums were crazy. Pathfinder is a brilliant concept. It gives you flying once we’ve moved on to a non-flying zone making it good only for alts playing in dated content.

Perfect in my eyes. Not my issue that Pathfinder has been deemed palatable with not nearly the same outcry and that’s why it’s sticking as is, regardless of spamming these threads to be liked by a few dozen posters.
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11/05/2018 09:42 PMPosted by Gempalm
11/05/2018 06:18 PMPosted by Ohenzo
Besides, by the the time flying is released the new content will likely be "no fly" anyways.

Such blatant disregard for customer satisfaction and experience would never 'fly' in
the real workplace world. And the hubris demonstrated by developers who seem to not care in the least what their community thinks astounds me.


Half the player base wants flying, half does not. Therefore devs go half way. You are the problem with the community and I can tell you heard someone use 'hubris' once and thought it sounded edgy.
50/50, right down the middle eh?

Hubris is edgy now? Oh my.
1 Like
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11/05/2018 09:45 PMPosted by Graewyn
11/05/2018 09:32 PMPosted by Charax
It seems that pro-flyers claim differently though. Thank you for this admission and no, forum whining doesn’t equate to majority. Content players don’t spam post threads to say how content they are.

You should know that.


Not every discontent player bothers with these forums either and with people like you, it's not a surprise. It wouldn't adversely affect you to have flying in the game. If it's immersion you need, you can still play without flying. You claim you're at a disadvantage but what disadvantage, beyond farming materials, would you have? World Quests last for hours and there's always groups if you need them. World PvP at the moment is completely one-sided in Horde's favor so that excuse is out.

I'm genuinely curious as to what it is you possibly lose out by allowing other players to have flying.


I WPvP every day. Things are balanced on RP servers. Flying is a major negative for that experience.

Farming is also another differentiator. When I asked why people want flying, they said it would allow them to be more efficient at farming. Well, not really fair for you folks to get the benefit over us.
94
If you could fly at the begining you would see how tiny the content is ... nice design but so small and just lacking. Very disapointing zones. Lvln alts is sooo boring doing same thing over and over ...
1 Like
95
11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Vadya
My guess is that people will continue to make threads until they do away with the unnecessarily long, two-part Pathfinder.
1 Like
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11/05/2018 09:45 PMPosted by Charax
Looking at your achieves, it doesn’t look like you War Mode at all.

And what’s wrong with the proposal? It let’s you fly early. You just won’t be as efficient as a War Mode grounded player. Your choice not to WM grounded. ;)

See how this works? Easy to flip this argument around on you guys and see how you answer it.


I literally came back to the game barely more than two weeks ago because a friend gifted it to me. No !@#$ I don't have many achievements as I've been primarily focused on maxing and gearing the characters I want to play.

And no, you haven't flipped anything. Flying being more efficient is simply something inherent to the concept of flying. No one is being specifically rewarded for flying, it simply is what it is. Your hypothetical specifically rewards people for doing something with literally zero reasoning behind it. It's as asinine as asking for RP walking to grant even bigger and better rewards.
5 Likes
97
11/05/2018 09:48 PMPosted by Charax
Pathfinder is a brilliant concept.


Pathfinder is a disgusting spit in the face by lazy, egocentric developers. Only slightly less infuriating are the vast, vast, vast minority, which you and your ilk represent, who take some obscenely perverse pleasure in being able to deny-by-proxy something that the majority very much want, just because your minority desires happen to have lined up with the dev's own selfish ones.
15 Likes
98
11/05/2018 09:56 PMPosted by Crackbunny
11/05/2018 09:45 PMPosted by Charax
Looking at your achieves, it doesn’t look like you War Mode at all.

And what’s wrong with the proposal? It let’s you fly early. You just won’t be as efficient as a War Mode grounded player. Your choice not to WM grounded. ;)

See how this works? Easy to flip this argument around on you guys and see how you answer it.


I literally came back to the game barely more than two weeks ago because a friend gifted it to me. No !@#$ I don't have many achievements as I've been primarily focused on maxing and gearing the characters I want to play.

And no, you haven't flipped anything. Flying being more efficient is simply something inherent to the concept of flying. No one is being specifically rewarded for flying, it simply is what it is. Your hypothetical specifically rewards people for doing something with literally zero reasoning behind it. It's as asinine as asking for RP walking to grant even bigger and better rewards.


It’s easy to justify that a flying mount would lose a lot of speed if forced to carry a bunch of monolite. Let’s not try to play the “realism card” because we can come up with a realistic explanation.

And I have never ran into a true WPvPer that actually wants flying. Like lol, WHAT?!
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My rant in no particular order

--->Ruins "Immersion"/Don't see people or the world

Is that so? How did levelling go from 110-120? I followed an arrow from AAP and killed what was required until the arrow told me to go somewhere else, I never spoke to a single person while levelling, no requirement to. Even group quests have auto ques so no need to ask in chat for help, finished group quests if required then dropped group and carried on. A lonely drudge through the mindless quests of Kill X and bring me X amount of Ears as proof.

You ban flying but dont ban addons like AAP?
You want people to communicate but automate all processes of teamwork?
The only thing that makes an MMO Level grind Immersive is a good story, and BFA certainly does not have that IMO.

----> You dont see the "art" / Fly over everything.

One of the most amazing experiences of art I have enjoyed in this game was FLYING through Nagrand in TBC and seeing the wild skyboxes, I remember at one point I stopped on a floating rock and took an SS and made it my desktop background. Combine that with having zones in the past DESIGNED FOR FLYING ie wraths storm peaks / ice crown. Just because youre flying doesn't mean youre not seeing the sights.

----> I like not flying because its leet/fun/immersive

THEN DONT FLY. LEG IT. BUT DONT TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME.

The current situation:
-Take a flight point to get to your boat for dailies
-Take the boat to new island
-Take closest FP to your dailies (poorly positioned usually 1500 yards away.)
-Auto run there and try and dodge all manner of creatures so your not dismounted.
-Now that youre SUPER IMMERSED getting to the dailies, PREPAPRE TO BE AMAZED AT THE DAILY CONTENT SUCH AS:
Kill X of Y
Kill Elite X
A TURTLE MADE IT TO THE WATER (oh jesus)

The only thing even remotely fun about dailies is sometimes getting into world PVP. otherwise Im just under the grind wheel to reclaim my ability to fly which I should arguably have already.

ALL THIS SAID I KNOW EXACTLY WHY THEY GATE FLYING.
ARE YOU READY?
*DEEP BREATH*
BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT YOU FINISHING CONTENT TOO FAST, GATING KEEPS YOU PLAYING LONGER AND NOT HITTING THAT UNSUB BUTTON.

Thats it. Thats all it boils down to, not art, not immersion. Just Time. Your time. And your money.

If people dont want to fly, then dont. But dont take it away from me.

Thats all I got for now I could REE for hours.
23 Likes
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11/05/2018 09:48 PMPosted by Charax
Pathfinder is a brilliant concept.


Pathfinder is a disgusting spit in the face by lazy, egocentric developers. Only slightly less infuriating are the vast, vast, vast minority which you and your ilk comprise who take some obscenely perverse pleasure in being able to deny-by-proxy something that the majority very much want, just because your minority desires happen to have lined up with the dev's own selfish ones.


Again, you claim to represent the majority but you have no proof and your gang dismisses a massive poll that indicates most players prefer no flying.

Anyways, current WoW has been degraded so much because of all the QoL things put into the game. I think it is nice that at least Blizzard stands up against something that they know is bad for gameplay.

Look, it’s not like we’re going to change each other’s minds and since we are three expansions into Pathfinder, these threads are just spam at this point. It’s in for 8.2. They are not moving it because of a few threads.

You can go to war for the next expansion but you’ll very likely get the same fate.
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11/05/2018 10:00 PMPosted by Charax
It’s easy to justify that a flying mount would lose a lot of speed if forced to carry a bunch of monolite. Let’s not try to play the “realism card” because we can come up with a realistic explanation.

And I have never ran into a true WPvPer that actually wants flying. Like lol, WHAT?!


And a ground mount wouldn't lose speed carrying ore? ROFL. You're really not great at this whole thinking thing, are you?

And yes, as a rabid PvP player since the !@#$ing original beta of this game flying is still the coolest %^-* since sliced bread. If you think flying killed world PvP you're delusional, and if you couldn't find plenty of world PvP even with flying then you weren't looking very hard.
2 Likes
103
11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Därkmist
Flying damages immersion.


L.O.L.

There is absolutely ZERO in game reason we can't fly, coupled with the dev mindset of "We don't want you to fly....because we don't want you to fly...…. because we said so." How is that even remotely immersive?

Since the devs/people are so worred about immersion being destroyed, then why hasn't stealth vanished? "Skipping content" via flying: not ok. Skipping content via stealthing past it: no problem.

Why are there a plethora of hearthstones, gear (rings, cloaks, tabards, trinkets), toys, profession items and portals, that allow you you to teleport across the map, the world or even to other planets? Think of all the content you're missing out on!!! :O

Flight paths: sit on a mount and afk while all the content whizzes past you, unable to interact with you or you with it. So immersive compared to being on a mount of YOUR choosing, going where YOU want to go, landing when and where YOU choose to for reasons YOU decide.

Flight whistle: skipping all that content to instantly appear at those super immersive flight paths?*gasp*

11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Därkmist
it was a mistake to add it to begin with


Yeah, the four expansions that we had it available at max level (BC, Wotlk, Cata, MoP) sure was a HUGE MASSIVE problem.... oh wait, that "problem" was of the devs making in WoD and continued in Legion as well as BfA. Flying was NEVER the issue it is now and has been since WoD until Blizzard decided to make it one.

11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Därkmist
Pathfinder is a compromise


Pathfinder is something the devs (eventually) begrudgingly decided upon due to the massive outrage and backlash THEY created by wanting to remove something that had become a staple feature.

While the time played metric was likely a factor in doing the pathfinder stuff (as well as the associated time gating) I also personally believe that, at least to some degree, the time gating was thrown in out of petty spite.

There is absolutely ZERO reason or excuse that Blizzard can't be creative, imaginative or innovative to incorporate content that complements flying.
12 Likes
104
11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Därkmist
Flying damages immersion. Devs said they don't want flying and it was a mistake to add it to begin with. Pathfinder is a compromise, be happy you'll be able to fly some day.


It's not a compromise, it's Blizzard trying to have it both ways. You get to funnel everyone across the ground for that theme park experience, which matters for most of us for...what? The first week or so? And then we wait for months or a year or more after that before we can actually move about freely and do what we want instead of being stuck on rails.

And the immersion thing is just ridiculous. There's nothing immersive about alt-tabbing out of the game every single time I hit a flight point, which is what happens starting at about day 2 of a new expansion. At least with flying I'm actually still playing when I'm traveling.
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11/05/2018 08:57 PMPosted by Charax
Allowing flying does impact everyone as it makes anti-flyers less efficient relatively speaking.


One player flying and another traveling by ground mount have absolutely no impact on each other. At all. The open world is a non-competitive game play space. Quests don't disappear if you reach the quest giver second.
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11/05/2018 08:57 PMPosted by Charax
I can be just as arrogant and suggest that you play an expansion behind so you can get Pathfinder completed without waiting for a future patch. ;)

Well, that is exactly what I do. I simply don't even bother buying the newest expansion. By the time I get to that content, it has been added to the base game and Pathfinder can just be completed right off the bat. I also save around $50 or so each year. More if I take a break from wow.
3 Likes
107
11/05/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Torghen
11/05/2018 08:57 PMPosted by Charax
Allowing flying does impact everyone as it makes anti-flyers less efficient relatively speaking.


One player flying and another traveling by ground mount have absolutely no impact on each other. At all. The open world is a non-competitive game play space. Quests don't disappear if you reach the quest giver second.


Preach it my dude these people are bird brains I wish I could give you a medal for top shelf logic.
7 Likes
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11/05/2018 10:03 PMPosted by Graewyn
11/05/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Charax
I WPvP every day. Things are balanced on RP servers. Flying is a major negative for that experience.

Farming is also another differentiator. When I asked why people want flying, they said it would allow them to be more efficient at farming. Well, not really fair for you folks to get the benefit over us.


You actually expect me to believe that? I'm on several RP realms and there's no balance. If you're going to lie, at least come up with a believable one.

How is it fair that Druids can instantly mount up and farm herbs without having to dismount? How is it fair that certain races such as the Highmountain Tauren, get additional resources? Why aren't you complaining about things that actually give people an edge over others instead of trying to deny something we can all enjoy?


World PvP achievements: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/emerald-dream/hyperion/achievements/player-vs-player/world

Bounty Hunting: Killed 10...probably at 15.

HK’s by zone:

Tiragarde: > 1,000
Nazmir: 457
Zuldazar: 489
Vol’Dun: 535
Stormsong Valley: 396
Drustvar: 958

And, of course, Horde Slayer title.

And, of course, we have a lot of passionate Alliance guilds waging war against the Horde: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769588332?page=10#post-199

WPvP is very healthy, at least on RP realms.