I cannot remember how many expansions it's been now since the whole concept of "flexible" sizes for raid groups was introduced for Normal/Heroic (I want to say MoP?) and everyone knows there has always been ONE boss where having a smaller group is just a total roadblock.
In Uldir I think it's probably the worst example yet - G'huun, the orbs, and the orb debuff. If you're a smaller guild you hit a total wall here because you just don't have enough people to account for all the running needed for the duration of the debuff. If raiding supports groups as small as 10 people why implement mechanics where having 10 people is so punishing?
This is not a post intending to call for the heads of whoever designed this boss encounter, as I think the G'huun fight is actually pretty interesting. My guild has always been a fan of fights that introduce a lot of personal responsibility for everyone, which this fight definitely does.
The bottom line though is we are to a point where we are able to steamroll all of of heroic and clear to G'huun in 90 minutes or less and then spend the entire rest of our night (3-4 hours) trying desperately to pug players in LFG, teaching them how to run orbs, repeatedly failing, and wiping. It's incredibly frustrating to hit this kind of a wall simply because we're fielding a smaller raid which the game tells us is allowed for the content.
I understand there is a lot that goes into designing 8-12 new encounters for every single raid and certainly not everything can be 100% equal for all raid sizes at all times, but this feels like the biggest punisher to smaller raid sizes I've seen implemented in WoW to date. Is it just me? Any other smaller guilds hitting this kind of wall?
If I could propose a solution, maybe have the debuff duration scale with your raid size such that in smaller groups you could repeat the same people sooner. I'm not suggesting the debuff be removed altogether cuz I think you'd still want to have a fair number of people accountable for the success of the group as a whole.
The debuff does scale based on raid size.
Blizz doesn’t really support 10m raiding at all. They haven’t come out and said that, but the game has been cruelly unbalanced against 10 person raids for years now.
Pug a handful of people on a handful of bosses if you want to keep your sanity and not recruit at all.
Blizz doesn’t really support 10m raiding at all. They haven’t come out and said that, but the game has been cruelly unbalanced against 10 person raids for years now.
Pug a handful of people on a handful of bosses if you want to keep your sanity and not recruit at all.
10/24/2018 07:23 AMPosted by TicklebagThe debuff does scale based on raid size.
Is this documented somewhere? In a raid as small as 12 people we're getting 5min debuffs. How does that compare to say a 20 person raid?
10/24/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Bajingobomb10/24/2018 07:23 AMPosted by TicklebagThe debuff does scale based on raid size.
Is this documented somewhere? In a raid as small as 12 people we're getting 5min debuffs. How does that compare to say a 20 person raid?
I am 95% sure it's 5 mins for any raid size.
Debuff is clearly to prevent class/spec stacking. Seems like a prime candidate for an adjustment now that Mythic races are over/HoF filled.
10/24/2018 11:48 AMPosted by CharityDebuff is clearly to prevent class/spec stacking. Seems like a prime candidate for an adjustment now that Mythic races are over/HoF filled.
Except the Alliance HoF isnt filled yet. So we have to wait for that before they make any substantial changes. Otherwise its going to open a different can of worms.
10/24/2018 12:16 PMPosted by Fierytaint10/24/2018 11:48 AMPosted by CharityDebuff is clearly to prevent class/spec stacking. Seems like a prime candidate for an adjustment now that Mythic races are over/HoF filled.
Except the Alliance HoF isnt filled yet. So we have to wait for that before they make any substantial changes. Otherwise its going to open a different can of worms.
Except he's talking about Heroic so... who cares?
10/24/2018 11:48 AMPosted by CharityDebuff is clearly to prevent class/spec stacking. Seems like a prime candidate for an adjustment now that Mythic races are over/HoF filled.
If that were true, then it failed miserably: the debuff actually encourages class stacking by making warriors, monks, DHs more desirable due to their ability to solo run orbs.
In my view, the debuff is designed to prevent raid teams from having a single dedicated orb runner.
10/24/2018 03:33 PMPosted by SwilltonIf that were true, then it failed miserably: the debuff actually encourages class stacking by making warriors, monks, DHs more desirable due to their ability to solo run orbs.
Solo running orbs really doesn't make the fight any easier, the only reason pugs try so hard to get solo runners is it removes the coordination needed to do it in pairs.
10/25/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Abikis10/24/2018 03:33 PMPosted by SwilltonIf that were true, then it failed miserably: the debuff actually encourages class stacking by making warriors, monks, DHs more desirable due to their ability to solo run orbs.
Solo running orbs really doesn't make the fight any easier, the only reason pugs try so hard to get solo runners is it removes the coordination needed to do it in pairs.
Solo orb runs are a lot faster, which in turn makes the fight easier due to less healing.
10/25/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Abikis10/24/2018 03:33 PMPosted by SwilltonIf that were true, then it failed miserably: the debuff actually encourages class stacking by making warriors, monks, DHs more desirable due to their ability to solo run orbs.
Solo running orbs really doesn't make the fight any easier, the only reason pugs try so hard to get solo runners is it removes the coordination needed to do it in pairs.
Not really, this is the Orb runners we have in my guild.
1) DH Tank (he's not needed during phase 1)
2) Warrior DPS
3) Druid/Shaman
4) Monk
5) Mage/Warlock
6) DH DPS
First two go in so fast the that the Druid/Shaman get about 10 seconds killing the worms before they need to start heading over to grab their orbs, which takes them about twice as long as the solos.
Same goes for myself and the lock, it takes us twice as long as the incredibly fast solo runners, and we're not slow.
10/24/2018 11:35 AMPosted by Kalcifer10/24/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Bajingobomb...
Is this documented somewhere? In a raid as small as 12 people we're getting 5min debuffs. How does that compare to say a 20 person raid?
I am 95% sure it's 5 mins for any raid size.
You are wrong. Why would you so strongly believe your own opinion without an proof?
For 10m raids it goes to ~2min, to make it possible.