Flex Size Mythic Raiding After Lockout Period

Community General Discussion
1

After 30 days, or 2 months, or pick whatever time frame fits, allow Mythic Raid to begin scaling to raid size.

Please.

Really.

I’m an adult. I’m in a guild of fellow adults. Basically all of us work full time and basically all of us have been playing for a very, very long time.

We can’t raid 3-4 nights a week.

We can’t afford to turn the guild into an unrealistic Mythic prog guild with all that entails. As a reminder to developers, it entails a lot. It takes a lot of work to make Mythic progression possible. Recruitment, drama handling, loot handling, out of raid expectations, in raid performance expectations, none of these being fun to handle with someone you’ve known for 15 years. However, if we can minimize these needs to the existing group, they’re far, far more manageable.

That said, raiding exactly 3 hours a week, we finished Heroic this week. At roughly the same time we always finish Heroic.

Fun stuff!

So now… We have no reason to gear, no reason to progress. The grind is over! We beat the game! Right? Celebrations for us?

But no one plays this game for the finish line.

Mythic will always be hard. Good. We’ll probably never get Cutting Edge. Good. Fair. If you need to change mount drops, title drops or even item drops, that’s FINE.

I just want the ability to TRY with my friends without it being outright impossible because we can only field 12-16 people that are interested in that grind and the lack of scaling makes it basically impossible.

We can’t be the only guild like this. In fact, I have to imagine there are way more guilds like us, wrapping up their raiding for the expansion right now, because there’s no real raiding left to do.

So just consider it. Evaluate whether or not flex Mythic raiding is actually bad for the game. If it is, okay. I get it. But I just wanted to throw it out there. (For the millionth time, I know)

48 Likes
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Yes please… this would open the door for my guild and I might actually enjoy raiding again.

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Mythic is puggable on day 1 now.

There are plenty of 2 night guilds that clear mythic every tier. I even played in a one night guild that cleared the raid in bfa

Seems like it would be pretty straight forward to pug a few people just to give it an attempt, no?

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Your arguments are the same ones everyone makes in these threads, yet here we are… so no, this is not what we want and yes, we’ve tried it before.

Edit: I guess I stand corrected… I only speak for myself, not the OP :slight_smile:

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Good to know! I haven’t tried PUG’ing mythic recently. I also believe 1-2 night a week would be possible with the right leadership and such, sure. My point was just to be clear that we already face a lot of challenges in raiding.

I did Edit the bit about Mythic going puggable to avoid confusion! Thank you!

We could PUG but that’s… Difficult. Especially in realistic numbers. The time commitment to PUG dramatically increases the amount of time in raid.

If you do a 3 hour raid and you PUG, you’ll probably get 90-120 minutes of pulls in after accounting for constant coordination changes due to raid shifting and accounting for wait times for proper players. One could argue that’s better than 0 minutes a week, but I’d simply say most people don’t want to spend an hour of their night just… Staring at the LFG finder. If you need 1-2 DPS, it’s a fine option. But anything more than that, it gets rough.

They’re fine questions, but I used to PUG a TON (And I used to lead a weekly PUG group) and I’m not sure it’s a realistic answer to most guild’s needs.

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The difficulty of mythic raids comes from the actual difficulty of the content, not from the people required to do it. If the mythic raids were easier to clear more people would want to show up.

If you have guilds taking 8-10 weeks to clear heroic and then try to push into mythic, most of the raiders are going to burn out.

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I mostly disagree with your sentiment but I don’t dismiss it completely

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You don’t need to raid crazy hours for mythic. I got CE past two seasons on a two-night 3-hour schedule as an adult working full time in a guild of other adults working full-time.

You don’t need pugs, you need recruiters and consistent raiders who all have the same goal. If your group can’t recruit and retain raiders, there’s always another guild who will.

Even if they make it 10 man, you still have to deal with recruitment, loot, progression, as that is an aspect of raiding and it isn’t even limited to Mythic, I have seen worse loot drama in late AotC guilds and recruitment woes of not even having 10 to raid in casual normal raid guilds.

Dispel the illusion, surround yourself with good people, be good people, recruit good people and remember, Mythic raid is about wiping a handful of times to easy bosses and over a hundred times to hard ones with the goal of killing it in the end, if your team doesn’t want to, don’t make them, there’s no shame in looking for a team that does.

4 Likes
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If the goal with other changes like restricting transmog unlocks is to push more people into Mythic raiding… if we can’t get flex at least change the lockout to work the same as normal/heroic.

Nothing sucks harder than having your entire lockout bricked because you had to PUG a slot and they dropped group after taking down the first boss, and no one else will join to fill the slot because who wants to get locked out of a boss you didn’t kill?

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Completely down with this idea. The waiting period you described would likely just be Hall of Fame being full (that’s when Mythic becomes cross-realm, if I remember right), and I would add one more element to it:

Change Mythic from an Instance/Classic Lockout to a Loot Lockout–i.e. the same lockout as the lower difficulties.

It would allow a real, more easily accessible PUG community to exist for players that want to dip their toes in to Mythic once Hall of Fame is full. New players are always confused when they start Mythic and can’t just join another group to keep progressing because of the unique lockout. This is something we ran into multiple times when we lost some members during Mythic progression and needed to PUG people to have a full 20.

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As of DF S4, HoF doesn’t matter, Mythic is cross-realm from day one.

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Ah, I missed this detail back then. Thanks for the correction!

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people keep talking about the time and difficulty and etc, you’re all missing the point. The problem is that if you have a 15 person raiding team and your guild isn’t recruiting because of the overhead that requires, then having to pug means that every week you’re dealing with 5 new unproven untested players who don’t have the same flow and experience as the last week did. Every week is 2 steps forward 1 back at best.

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Which is part of why recruiting is more important than pugging. If you want a mercenary that you don’t want to pay, you better have enough content on farm to keep them interested, it’s even worse for the team when pugs get loot that your team needs because that’s just another upgrade gone to the wind.

Though, I think the transmog changes will push more people to doing +10s for vault than mythic raiding if we’re being honest.

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Just feels like dumb game design when it’s only applied to one thing in the entire game.

There’s no other content that requires you to cultivate a backbench of players and absolutely screws you over if anyone drops group for whatever reason. Could even be just an act of god like a power outage, not whatever “mercenary” stuff you’re saying.

And this is just for “let’s see how far we can get” mythic, not a world first guild.

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That doesn’t change the problem. I’m not the guild leader, it’s not my decision not to recruit. And he has his reasons for not recruiting. We’re more close knit friends of friends and a number of the guild don’t want to go through vetting strangers

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A pug is effectively a mercenary, only there for their shot at loot and a chance to kill some bosses for vault, they aren’t part of the guild and they don’t care.

Having a bench is a different subject, a bench is so you never have to call off raid in those disaster situations or if you need to cycle people in to get better vaults or spread drops out for the whole team. That’s a logistical part of EVERY raid and M+ team that doesn’t ever want to pug, the only difference with Normal/Heroic is that you need 10 or more, Mythic needs 20 or more.

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I mean, the difference is that if you PUG someone in a key or heroic raid and they DC because lightning strikes them out of the blue, you replace them and move on.

If you PUG someone in a mythic raid and they DC, your run is ruined for the week.

I’m not sure what you’re arguing justifies that mythic raid content be different than anything else in the game in this regard.

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19

There is also the difference of not having any guarantee that the people you pugged will know what they are doing, and less guarantee you’ll have them again and not more people who have to learn the fight all over again and gain 0 progress because of it.

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You lose someone in a key and your key is bricked, you have to not only find a replacement but you need to do an extra key to push back up. Resilient keys were the fix to prevent keys from dropping from say a 18 to a 12 over the course of several bad runsvin a row.

You can pug for mythic raid, but of course pugs are unreliable and unpredictable, the only thing that works in the lockout’s favor is if they leave they go effectively brick themselves too. Your raid isn’t ruined but waiting for a new replacement is the cost of not having enough ready. Cross-realm Mythic was the fix to let guilds recruit from ANYWHERE so there’s no shortage of willing raiders.

1 Like