FLAGELLATION Changes

Classes Rogue
1

I’m sure this has been done to death, but it really needs help.

For the current state of things the CD and ramp up time are hindering this ability greatly because of this it’s basically worthless on short fights, and it’s especially bad for Assassination, I find the only time I can get the full benefit out of it is with a lot of lucky dispatch procs and some external buff like power infusion/heroism. However, EVEN THEN once you get the full power out of it your burst window is gone as it’ll almost never line up with our only dps cd, vendetta.

Further, for an already energy starved spec that’s at the bottom of the dps charts having it be a two part ability, on the GCD and cost 20 ENERGY per use is just awful, by the time I have everything rolling I’m running on fumes.

Flagellation needs major help, Ideally changed back to slaughter but that would be at odds with what you (blizzard) has set out to do. So in lieu of that good middle ground would be to give it a serious boost in damage (the damage per lashing is so awful) make it so we can choose to reactivate it early but if not we still get the benefit of whatever stacks it was currently at, if the aforementioned change isn’t made, then either remove it from the GCD or remove the energy cost on reactivation. You could even make it so that it stacks to 15, and each stack is 1% haste. Better yet you get the benefits of the haste WHILE stacking it.

Big changes to the ability that I would like to see is have Flagellation Lash the target dealing X shadow damage per CP used up front and leaving a bleed on the target dealing X physical damage until we purge them of their sins, removing the bleed and increasing our highest secondary stat by 15% at max stacks. You revel in the sins of your target, healing for the damage done by Flagellation.

The heal portion could be iterated on in a number of ways, it could give us flat leech while the ability is active, it could store the damage done and give it to us as a HoT at the end of the duration over a period of time.

Flagellation needs help, but talking completely from my butt here, we can get it under control ESPECIALLY if:

A. Removed from GCD
B. Optional reactivation
C. Lowered Energy Cost
D. Damage increase

It feels bad for the other specs but for assassination in particular it’s just so rough.

9 Likes
9.0.5 - Rogue Venthyr Covenant ability Flagellation
2

I have it off my bars in pvp…

Thanks for the impactful choice blizzard

9 Likes
3

It was obvious from the beginning it wouldn’t be good in a PvP setting, can’t expect every covenant to be good in PvE and PvP. Even if they reduced the required stacks from 30 to 15 and allowed it to give haste while stacking it still wouldn’t be good for PvP.

You can just switch Covenants with how easy it is to gain Renown if you just PvP.

4

but I dont just pvp, i do mythics and raid. These abilities should be useful in all settings and i dont think thats a big ask from blizz. It is kinda one of the biggest features of their new expansion.

2 Likes
5

Any stacking ability like that would be bad in a PvP setting with these fast kill times, it also provides haste which is the worst stat for PvP, Flagellation needs some tweaks for quality of life but it would need a complete redesign to be viable in a PvP settings.

Flagellation is just as much DPS as the other 4 as they’re all nearly identical, while it’s not useless in PvP the game just favors bursty Covenants.

1 Like
6

Wouldnt need a redesign , just change the haste % to whichever is your highest secondary at the time of using it!

And a huge dmg boost on the initial lashes

3 Likes
7

From the perspective of a Sub rogue

A. I don’t think the removal of the GCD is necessary, if we get B

B. This is the one i’d like to see looked at the most. Playing sub, the only time im able to full stack flagellation is during a double dance window, the problem is that i have to waste a GCD during dance to re-activate the ability which causes us to lose damage in dance. I think having it reactivate upon expiration or removing re-activation/energy cost from the 2nd cast would be the best course of action, at the least.

C. I think the energy cost is also fine, given: It’s reactivation cost and reactivation gcd is done away with AND flagellation generates upfront combo points (1-2). Its unsatisfying using an ability that costs energy provides no cps, if you look at the new shiv, it also costs 20 energy and its more of a utility/situation spell and even that awards 1cp so it doesn’t feel like a waste of a GCD when used to say, soothe an enrage in M+.

D. As for this, I wouldn’t like to see any damage tuning until the ability itself is in a healthy condition in terms of its mechanics. I think addressing some of the issues suggested in ABC would in itself serve as a pseudo damage buff. It’s damage is currently comparable to the other Covenant abilities and i’d like to keep it that way. The only way it differs is that it requires alot more effort to use properly for minimal gains when compared to sepsis, ER, and bone spike. I think if the mechanics of the ability are not changed then a buff would be warranted to balance out the pay-off of using an ability that requires a bit more presence of mind.

I like the idea of dropping down the stacks and increasing the % per stack, however 15 seems a tad too easy to hit. maybe something around the 20 mark. And if this is done, I think giving % main stat would be far to powerful and put it above the other covenant abilities.
If the stacks are to stay at 30 with .5% per stack id agree in saying that providing the haste stacks upfront would be the best play. This would have to change the reactivation mechanic however or have it removed completely (which I wouldn’t be mad with). Perhaps an extension of the haste duration for reactivating before it expires to reward better gameplay?

Anyways that’s just my 2 cents. Blizzard seems to be very weary of making any changes to covenant abilities now so I fear we wont get any. I wasn’t in the beta, but I doubt this is the first time this issue is brought to light and something could have definitely been done before release.

1 Like
8

So you picked the worst cov for every thing you do?

Flagellation is only useful on single target boss fights.

9

It wasn’t the worst for enjoying how my character looks.

3 Likes
10

That’s absolutely not what they marketed when they presented the idea of covenant abilities, which is why the system failed miserably.

4 Likes
11

Taking it off the GCD would actually be a really positive change, even though I think it needs a lot more to be fixed. Being venthyr rogue just feels like the wrong choice right now. Blizzard needs to do something but I doubt they change anything until a major patch (if that)

12

Completely agree, having the reactivation on GCD feels incredibly clunky and unfun in the rotation. Specifically as sub rogue many of the times you lose a GCD during Shadow Dance that could’ve been spent on an extra Shadow Strike/Eviscerate.

Flagellation is the most punishing rogue covenant ability to get full value from, as well as being the clunkiest to use inside our rotation. Flagellation needs a lot of work done to it, I’d argue it needs a total rework/replacement. The haste is redundant for rogues with Nadjia being our only playable soulbind in PVE which already grants a large amount of haste from Thrill Seeker. Removing the reactivation being on GCD is a much needed start that needs to happen ASAP.

2 Likes
13

If you chose based on transmog over functionality then thats your choice.

14

The problem is it wasn’t supposed to be this way. But of course most people expected it to be because when it comes to balance, no one believes Blizzard anymore.

1 Like
15

The rogue covenants are all pretty even it just boils down to what you want to do

Kyrian = PvP
Nightfae = ST
Venth = ST
Necro = Bonus Agility

16

They being even doesn’t mean they are good.

1 Like
17

I just finished switching to Necro and I pump higher numbers now

18

Even if that were true, the value comes from the soulbinds, not the covenant ability.

1 Like
19

Why would I lie?

SBS gives me a 13% agility for every dance

20

I’m not saying you’re lying, but it might be a perception or execution problem since Necrolord sims the lowest early on.