She’s Thrall if he was raised as an Orc and wasn’t a Shaman, there’s nothing wrong with that.
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This would be so interesting. Having her act as Umbric’s rival in void matters for this expansion? That would be fun.
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Did you read any of the alternate upbringings I listed? Did any of them sound like Thrall or a shaman to you?
We don’t need an AU Thrall, who will inevitably be stuck in his shadow, if we could’ve gotten a brand new character that stood out on her own.
And for the hundredth time, Thrall was raised by humans to be a gladiator and a slave, his ideals and core beliefs came from his birth clan, the Frostwolves. NOT humans, now either you had absolutely no clue what the difference was between being raised by a cruel slavemaster and your average humans or you simply continue to promote this ignorant misconception of where Thrall got his personality from out of continued spite the character.
Thrall is what you’d call a “pure Orc”, raised on the strong principals of honor and nobility that is shared and promoted by all Frostwolves. He is true to the ideals of his clan, Geya’rah on the other hand was the steward of a barely reformed mass-murderer.
You’re deinition of being “raised as an Orc” is wrong.
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Like, right?!
Not only that, but it would cover an archetype never seen before in the Horde. Not to mention a shadowmoon orc, which is quite a rare sight nowadays since most of that clan turned evil. That could’ve been awesome, but no, instead she’s a basic warrior with the personality of a dead leaf.
Thanks Blizzard…
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The race is well done. Their lore would be improved by having their population drawn from AU and MU brown Orcs, but as far as the quality of the race itself, that stands on its own.
So apologies if I downplayed the significance of that lore change, but I was more focusing on the playable character you get.
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Not like they could possible ruin Vol’jin anymore than they already have.
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It would have been nice to see a revival of the blademasters through the remnants of their clan joining the survivors.
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No, but I don’t see why that matters.
Thrall has been stuck in his own shadow for years. Since he left in Cata and Garrosh was overthrown, the Orcs have really had no strong warrior leaders. Well there was Saurfang, but we all know how that turned out. And for the Mag’har, she’s Grommash’s successor, so it makes sense that she should follow the warrior ideal and not some niche path.
Funny that you call me ignorant while ignoring that Thrall first learned honor, compassion, and mercy from Humans, not to mention strategy. The Frostwolves, specifically Drek’thar, taught him the old ways of Shamanism, but Thrall’s core ideals were formed before he ever interacted with any other Orcs.
Which is why in the Shattering he didn’t trust his own people enough to think they wouldn’t overthrow him if he appointed a non-Orc as Warchief.
Grom did nothing wrong.
Dear god this whole thread is a mess. As I have a track record of writing massive replies, I’d like to mix things up a little bit and go simple:
- There is no way to fix BfA.
- Obviously Sylvanas’s fans were wrong to have any hope that Blizzard was capable of writing an engaging, nuanced story. Silly fans.
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On the other hand the Horde as an organization is absurdly new (at least this incarnation of it).
The concept only dates back about 15 years (and I do agree with Saurfang that it was ultimately developed by a man who knew little to nothing about the true history of the Orcish Horde when he designed it). The Warchief system has also MANY times proven unstable, and not just with Thrall’s Horde (but ALSO in the prior Orcish Hordes). On top of all of this, the WARCHIEF is EXCLUSIVELY a ORC social construct (and the Orcs no longer lead the Horde in that way anymore).
As for the AU Mag’har over the MU Mag’har … the MU Mag’har are just the MU Orcs, but brown. There is no unique culture there to play off of, and if Blizzard didn’t make a massive habit of neglecting BC content … characters like Jorin would have become a mainstay MU Orc ages ago. The AU Mag’har at least bring an entirely distinct culture of Orc to the table … the MU Mag’har do not (they’ve bled in too much with the MU Orcs culturally already since BC).
Honestly, with how lacking in Characters the MU Orcs truly are at this point (having to rely on Thrall and Rexxar to pad out their now pathetic roster) … one would hope that Jorin Deadeye and Nazgrel would be brought in from outlands to pad out THEIR representation (rather than pretending the MU Mag’har are some group distinct enough from their green relatives to justify being an AR).
Citation needed.
Cuz it was the basis for my entire argument. Read it, and you’ll understand what I mean.
We have strong Warrior leaders, Eitrigg, Gorganna, Thura, Nazgrel, Samuro, we just don’t see them most of the time because Blizzard would rather make a bunch of unnecessary new characters that add nothing interesting to the faction or race then use all the underdeveloped characters in their back pocket.
Cuz that’s an ignorant assertion. You’re continuing to make Thrall out to be some kind of anomaly, which admittedly he is, but not to the extent that you’re accusing him. Which is of essentially being an human wearing Orc clothing, when that’s never been the case.
No they weren’t, they were cemented after he united the orcish people and reformed the Horde. He didn’t build the new Horde on a foundation of human ideology, that’s never been the case, maybe a mix between the two at most.
Because there’s never been a non-Orc Warchief before, he wasn’t what would happen. I’m of the strong belief that he should’ve just given Vol’jin and Cairne authority over Garrosh, to keep his power in check and not full-authority like he did. But it’s pretty understandable why he wouldn’t put the first non-Orc chief in charge, it would’ve been a massive change that he was unsure his people were ready for. He had no idea what would’ve happened and this was not the time for him to take a leap of faith.
“DRaenur iZ fWee!!!”
They should’ve known better from just how little effort they put into actually making Sylvanas a believable or compelling Warchief.
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What did Vol’jin do as Warchief again? His fans should’ve known better that he was gonna get such a crappy death.
(Not my actual opinion, just illustrating my point.)
Idk, I still see Sylvanas stans (I hate you internet for making me use this)
But then, there was the epiphany that some people were into playing evil races/factions. Whereas a LOT more people wanted to play as these "evil races (Forsaken not included) but as the good guys (Thrall’s Orcs during WCIII) .
So, Metzen needed to come up with something for the undead. We seriously considered dropping them, but every time we looked at concepts/in game assets we balked. Then he announced the Forsaken.
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Since someone beat me to it, have you ever bothered to look into the game’s history? There’s a lot of videos on youtube that have it with Classic being a thing.
I was referring to that specific quoted section not being much of a reply to what I was saying.
If they never show up, then they’re not “strong leaders”. Eitrigg isn’t a leader, he’s an advisor whose lot in life is to get the tar beaten out of him every time a Warchief goes crazy. Gorgonna was part of one questline in Wrath and had a bit part in Garrosh’s short story, and she’s so irrelevant that you can’t even spell her name correctly. Thura hasn’t shown up in like ten years, Nazgrel is almost worse. Samuro doesn’t even formally exist in WoW.
Meanwhile, Geya’rah is the leader of a Horde race. She’s on a different tier of importance compared to everyone else you just listed.
If by “ignorant” you mean “factually correct”, then yes. He’s even been called out multiple times by multiple characters as being too “Humanized”.
Yes they were, hence why he had a strong moral opposition to killing a child for the Warsong even though they told him it was morally right. If his ideals hadn’t already been formed by that point, he’d have just done as they told him.
He wasn’t just unsure about it, he didn’t trust his own people not to revolt on him. That’s also why he refused to apologize for the slaughter of Sentinels in Ashenvale, it was extremely popular among the Orcs, and he couldn’t afford to show weakness to them.
Yes it was, and Grom did what he thought he had to under the circumstances.
Meh, Geya’rah is very generic atm, but she does have a few story hooks going for her. She does have a personal investment in the Lightbound issue (should it resurface); as well as the other AU Mag’har issue (apparently Draka’s group in Nagrand are the last holdouts). However, at the end of the day what she needed to do was bring the AU Mag’har (and THEIR culture) into the Horde.
Iron Horde Tech and Engineering, check. Gronn, Gronnlings, Ogres, and Goran check. WHAT they brought with them is a unified Orc Peoples 30 years distanced in culture to their MU counterparts (and have some VAST differences as a result).
Ok and I was referring to how you didn’t read the points explaining what my argument is actually about.
She’s leader of a small band of refugees living in the Hall of the Brave in Orgrimmar, kinda overselling it here. Mayla, Thalyssra, and even Talanji are more actual leaders of Horde races than she is, Geya’rah is a glorified grunt at best. The other characters I listed at least have accomplishments to their names, Geya’rah’s greatest achievement is being the biggest yes-man in all of WC.
No, I don’t mean “factually correct”, I mean ignorant. It’s just more obnoxious spiel Sylvanas loyalists and other haters like to throw at him in attempts to invalidate his legitimacy as a Horde leader.
“Oh he was raised by humans? He’s not real Horde.”
Like, yes he is, he invented the Horde we’re playing right now. All the core races we have in the Horde are 90% thanks to him.
By who?! Garrosh?
What living being wouldn’t have a strong moral opposition to killing a child?!
If Thrall was just a pathetic yes-man who did what anyone told him to do, he wouldn’t have been much of a Warchief.
Well that and also because it was the Twilights Hammer who did it, not the Horde.
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Yeah, cuz we kept putting unstable, untrustworthy people into the position. Not because the position itself is bad. Did it need to have more checks in place to ensure the Warchiefs’ rule is just, yes. But like all supreme leadership positions, there’s going to be some inherent flaws that need to be corrected.
Yeah, that’s because they didn’t have the technology or the resources to have varying models for the MU Mag’har. In BC, they just wanted to get it across that there are uncorrupted Orcs and they are brown, but canonically, the Mag’har in Garadar are all from various clans and therefore it can very well be implemented in game, especially now that they have all these resources and updated models to pull from.
They haven’t bled in at all, as far as we know they’re apparently all still chilling on Outland as it slowly disintegrates into nothingness without a care in the world. We haven’t heard anything on the MU Mag’har since BC other than what could be inferred from the “Safe Haven” cinematic.
Yeah, you’d think. It only took them over a decade to finally give Rokhan some screen time, who knows how long we have to wait till’ we hear about OUR Draenor again.