Fixing Shadow Priest

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
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Heya All, I apologise for a hefty long post but I think it’s necessary explaining everything.

After our recent buffs which as expected didn’t change much, 2 of the Runes that were buffed are on our chest piece, essentially turning Void Plague into the go to Rune choice, SW:Death still is useless seriously better off casting Mind Blast, Penance simply does more DPS then SW:Death, while having utility to off heal and the best thing of all has zero downsides to it, Homunculi still is insanely awkward to use due to horrible A.I and literally really doesn’t benefit us at all. Mind Sear cost insanely to much for its output and Shared Pain is pointless trash simply doesn’t live long enough for it to have value. Biggest flaw is our mana issues still haven’t been addressed, literally still the only Class that uses mana as a resource that still has zero Runes to help in any way. Don’t believe me?, let me break it down.

  • Druid - Fury of Stormrage, turns Wrath free. Can Crit and doesn’t interrupt MP5 and the 12% chance for a free Healing Touch is sugar on top. Living Bloom even refunds half the cost when it expires.

  • Hunter - Master Marksman, 5% Crit and 25% less mana on Shot spells.

  • Mage - Enlightenment, While below 30% mana 10% of your mana regeneration continues while casting. minor but still something.

  • Paladin - Seal of Martyrdom, mana for all and Crusader Strike.

  • Shaman - Shamanistic Rage, which is insane with double rockbiter, Water Shield, free cast too.

  • Warlock - Essentially the opposite they have such great talents for self sustain to fuel life tap, Master Channeler, Soul Siphon and Haunt.

Priests got nothing… Perhaps an oversight?.

Shadow Priest’s in its early iterations up to Cata when things changed immensely for Shadow as our “ALL” DoTs could Crit, WotLK Mind Flay still couldn’t, it was never known for its damage more for its invaluable utility it brought and that’s fine completely if we did, while I was hoping SoD would change this to a degree hoping our dps be mediocre at best to take as a DPS, currently with our Runes nothing has changed even post buff. But with a few Rune changes we can be.

  • Twisted Faith, needs to make Mind Flay free, it’s not a compromise, Shadow get zero channel/cast protection until literally level 47, when we can get Martyrdom that literally only works if we were Crit and only lasts 6 seconds. So essentially Phase 3.

There is zero reasoning not to make Mind Flay free, in PvP any hit takes of a tic of channel, same with solo content, but immediately help in grouped/raid content. We get a filler that can’t Crit mind you, but at least help with steady dps, help get Shadow Weaving up that in phase 2 will take 5 GCDs, but most importantly triggers MP5 as it’s a free spell.

  • Shadow Word: Death, it simply needs a reason to be used, currently the literal only upside is it’s our only spell that’s instant cast that does damage instantly… but if you don’t kill the target you take full damage aswell and it’s on a 12 sec cd. I cannot figure out who thought this was a great idea to put into Classic. All we have is Vampiric Embrace…in Phase 2…

At least in TBC we had Vampirc Touch and Misery giving 5% Stam/Int/Spirit and in WotLK we had Vampirc Touch and Devouring Plague which Shadow form made Crit aswell and if SW:Death Crit is procd Improved Spirit Tap. All this ontop of Vampiric Embrace.

Simply SW:Death needs more, it’s absolutely not designed currently for Classic, we don’t have the Health or even the Mana to help sustain this ability slightly as even without its use we OOM insanely fast.

My suggestion is to lean more into our Mana Battery support play style from TBC and WotLK, Shadow Word: Death gives mana to the Group/Raid, so essentially every 12 seconds this helps every caster, the mana we gain especially helps heal the backlash but helps healers and casters in the group aswell push that extra spell or two. If that’s too much let it proc Spirit Tap on use… it simply needs something.

These suggestions are no way going to make Shadow Priest a must pick or even top the charts but essentially we trade off our damage to help the others deal more or heal more, giving us back our unique niche to be brought as a DPS instead of a Healer.

And PLEASE FIX HOMUNCULI, it’s a Shadow Spell, fix it’s A.I please! and maybe have each hit a chance in phase 1 and in phase 2 proc Shadow Weaving, let it benefit us!!.

6 Likes
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2 of the 3 warlock runes you mentioned are not used….

And it shows that your argument of runes competing with something better is a struggle not unique to shadow priests.

As for hummunculi, it is hands down one of the best support runes in the game. I am all for improving its ai but if you took the damage the raid gets from the armor debuff and attributed it to the priest they would be the highest parsing class in the game hands down. If you gave them the healing saved due to the debuff they would be high on the healing parse as well. Some people dont like looking at support abilities through that lens though.

The mana issues need to be addressed across all casters. Some have it better then others thats for sure, but yah giving shadow priests nothing in that regard is rough. Shaman have the same issue. The easiest fix I see that just stops them from being mana batteries to the raid is giving spirit tap a small chance to trigger off of any shadow damage dealt.

Also I think a lot of these issues will be fixed in p2 and casters will be the dps overlords. Spells cost base mana, and as we get more int on our gear our longevity improves, our scaling is 90% through talents until spell power becomes more prevelant, and most casters dont get their heavy scaling talents until deep in their tree.

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I agree Master Channeler is most picked, but Haunt definitely does have its use. The point I’m trying to get across is they have options respectively for their builds, regardless both Runes effectively help them Life Tap for Mana.

For other Casters yes, Not for Shadow Priests. Casters in phase 2 are simply going to leave us further in the dust when Phase 2 hits. Simply because of Crit Talents.

  • Druids get Vengeance 5/5, 100% Crit bonus to everything including Starsurge and Wrath (which is free cast). Moonfury 10% increased Damage and Moonkin form 3% spell Crit.
  • Mages get Ice Shards + Shatter Combo and get Winters Chill. 100% crit damage, 50% chance to crit on frozen targets.
  • Shamans get Elemental Fury, 100% crit damage throw in Lava Surge a guaranteed crit with Flame Shock and Elemental Mastery, Lava Surge with Overload Proc is gonna hurt.
  • Warlocks get Ruin, which further is gonna make Chaos bolt + incinerate/lake of flames combo wreck in PvE.

Shadow Priests only can Crit with Mind Blast and now SW:Death which is worse for us!.

Shadow Priest cannot compete, we’ve never competed in terms of raw damage, we get 40% extra shadow damage, which any of the other classes crit makes us completely redundant, SW:Death essentially is going to hit us even harder, we lose access to Holy Spells so essentially their goes Penance out the window and a majority of our heals, we just can PW:Shield and Vampire Embrace…

Phase 2 is Gnomergan Raid, Mechanical Units galore, their goes Void Plague out the window as mechanical units are immune to diseases. So we are left with Twisted Fate… it definitely should make Mind Flay free!.

Phase 2 isn’t going to be the saving grace for Shadow Priests, if anything things will get worse, that’s why I’m not asking for Shadow to be a dps machine we simply cannot, we never have been.

Seriously Classic WoW Shadow was only brought purely for Shadow Weaving to enhance Warlocks but they do that better themselves and 9/10 times a disc priest would maintain Shadow Weaving.

That’s why I love Homunculi as a Rune even though it’s insanely buggy and most definitely should apply Shadow Weaving as it is a Shadow Spell, but it leans into the support aspect and niche we had in TBC and WotLK.

We had a purpose that for some reasons are given to other Classes, making Mind Flay a iconic yet weak spell that cannot Crit, scales horribly free to cast isn’t game breaking, Giving SW:Death a purpose other then a weak instant cast spell that isn’t efficient and on a 12 sec cd isn’t going to make us meta, it’s simply trying to help address our mana issues and give a reason to be brought other then as a Healer.

I honestly was hoping SoD would change things, but currently nothing at all has changed from Classic to SoD we just Heal.

I understand, let them make a post for the class/specs they play, but I’m talking about Shadow Priests, at least other casters and mana users have something be it minor or large to help with Mana. We simply got nothing.

1 Like
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Yup just add vampiric touch, problem solved!

Good write up as a whole!

2 Likes
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Wait for p2 and its broken. Problem solved

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The thing about shadow is too next phase shadow damage is increased by 40% due to talents so tough to rate how they really are but definitely can address the mana issue

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Correct. This. This. This.

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The free spellcaat is a silly and inelegant solution. Shadow needs a rune that makes spirit tap have 100% up time in combat and make spirit benefit spellpower. This would solve shadow’s mana issues and create a new hearing route for shadow.

3 Likes
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I don’t think so, in Classic/Era Mind Flay only became useful at Rank 3 at lvl 36 , that’s when it began to out scale the original Gravestone Sceptre wand which did only 29.0 dps.

Loot now in SoD from Dungeons are scaling insanely better then originally, but our original skills are not, they still power locked by rank. Even the coefficient for Mind Flay is abysmal.

Mind Flay needs to be a free cast, help get Shadow Weaving up and trigger mp5.

Let’s compare it to say Wrath from Druids.

Mind Flay (A Talent) in phase 2 will reach Rank 3 and do 186 Shadow Damage in 3 seconds. Baseline.

With Shadow Form, Darkness and Shadow Weaving we get 40% damage increase making it 260 Shadow Damage over 3 seconds.

Druids Wrath Rank 6 will do 148 to 167 Nature damage. Baseline.

Add in Improved Wrath making it 1.5 sec Cast, Vengenance 100% crit damage, Moonfury 10% extra Damage. Natures Grace Crit can turn it into 1 sec cast and Moonkin Form 3% spell Crit too.

Turns Wrath into a 1.5 sec cast, can be 1 sec if Natures Grace Proc can deal 163 - 184 per cast and theyll be able to cast twice.

So in 3 seconds they can do 326 - 368 compared to our 260, Their ability is absolutely free, ours cost 100 mana, and if they Crit it gets 100% bonus ontop, Mind Flay cannot Crit.

We also need to use 5 gcds, to get Shadow Weaving at 5 stacks, that’s 1 cast of SW:Pain and 4 Mind Flays to get the 15% extra Shadow Damage, so we will use 600+ mana just to try ramp up, while they a free casting and dealing insanely more from the word go.

Even with Twisted Faith it’s not even comparable as one crit in any fight will out dps Mind Flay, let alone if we even have the mana to continue to Mind Flay.

Mind Flay needs to be a free cast.

2 Likes
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Reading through these comments make me wonder if people understand casters in classic. 40% damage increase to spells that do no damage is NOTHING. The only valuable one would be void plague because it’s a rune and scales with level. Even then it’s a dot and can’t crit!

Spell casters rely on CRIT AND CRIT SPELL damage to compete with DPS. Without that shadow priest will NEVER be brought for its damage, only utility. But why would you ever bring a class that has limited utility, dps and healing when you can bring an arcane mage now that will outperform you in both…

Arcane mages heal more - have poly - have a kick and do more damage.

Shadow has shadow weaving for raid - decent passive healing - and the new homunculi debuffs - which are good but not enough to bring for dps; also you can just have a healing priest go them if they are that op.

Once again I will say. Casters rely on CRITS to compete at all in classic dps. It’s why every mage went frost in classic, why locks went ruin…if you didn’t have these you did no damage. This isn’t just an issue for shadow tough, it’s going to be an issue for all caster specs that don’t have crit damage multipliers. You will start to see them fall behind unless changes are implemented to support.

3 Likes
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This is one of the biggest problems for Shadow. Homunculi debuffs are used in all top Warrior parses, they are very good for a raid. However, H Priest can sacrifice Prayer of Mending to bring Homunculi. I healed the raid in green gear using homunculi and it was fine.

2 Likes
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The spell caster crit theory is true to classic because dot classes and debuff slots were just weak and limited. Spriest and affy don’t really need to rely on crit if they compensate by giving more sp gear to outweigh. Not sure how things will play out but I think affy and spriest will be fine in the big picture, too early to tell imo based on the unknown changes ahead. We’re also not playing mythic + where every aspect has to be min/max’d, I think dot classes will still be strong enough to bring and succeed if the player enjoys the class.

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Oh I agree, not everything has to be 100% balanced, and min max - as long as it’s fun. But having an impact is also important.

The issue with spell casters is the level of spells and when you get them…if your a 40 priest your using a level 34 rank 5 shadow word pain, it’s not going to do much.

But we’ll see hoping for the best. Just hoping casters get some support is all! :slight_smile: game is great

2 Likes
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Yup totally agree! With regard to the phase break points I think it’s something classes just have to take on the chin and move along if “x” spell hasn’t upgraded in rank since “y”. Now if balance is still a substantial issue at 60 I’d be more willing to sound the alarms

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If spriest doesn’t get vampiric touch I think mind flay being free would be a great change!

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Shadow priests can never be fixed, because of vampiric embrace, shadoweaving and shadowform. Currently spriest gets 0 benefits from its talents towards damage, this will change. But it can never really do that much DPS since it can heal for its damage.

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That’s why I’m asking just for a few QoL changes for mana but to lean into the “Support Aspect” that Shadow Priests had in TBC and WotLK.

Shadow Priests simply do not have the “Talents/Tools” in Classic to compete as a full dps. It never was until really Cataclysm. But in TBC and WotLK they were brought as they steadily healed their group and provided mana for everyone.

Bringing a Shadow Priest in SoD currently is non existent, and in Phase 2 nothing will change, Void Plague now our hardest hitting DoT since the buff becomes obsolete in 80% of Gnomeregan simply due to the fact it’s a Disease which Mechanical Units are Immune too. The new reworked 10 man Raid.

I’d argue that a new and improved dps wand will be available further making Mind Flay usesless at level 40. While also every other Caster is going to become insanely stronger via Talents with Crit/Crit Damage Talents, there is really no competition, there never has been.

Then comes a further issue with Runes and Future Runes, now instead of the current runes fixing the issues of Shadow Priest, like the current runes in phase 1 most classes have gotten to a degree, our future runes I guarantee you are going to try and fix our problems while other classes will get more runes further enhancing their strengths.

Essentially Blizzard has put Shadow Priest in a situation where we have no chance to compete. Phase 2 Runes Im praying will address our mana issues but then we still left in the same situation doing less then sub par damage compared to others.

That’s why I believe our Phase 1 Runes need to be fixed so our Phase 2 Runes can be used to help us further enhance our purpose and reasoning to be brought.

  • SW:Death should have been a Phase 2 Rune, at least when we could get Vampiric Embrace and we most definitely should have got Vampiric Touch in phase 1 for healing and mana. Alternatively let SW:Death do more, if they don’t give us Vampiric Touch let SW:Death apply the debuff, the healing will help off set the backlash slightly and more importantly then our Shadow Damage gives mana to party and us!.

  • Homunculi should trigger Shadow Weaving it’s a shadow spell that does damage!, let it build stacks quickly for us rather then spending a 3rd of our mana pool building it up, and it would actually benefit us aswell then rather just Physical Damage Classes.

  • Twisted Faith also makes Mind Flay free to cast.

I’m trying to stay hopeful, I really am, but I don’t know if I can last another whole phase being useless and being shoehorned as a healer only.

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It’s not an oversight, it’s just that shadow doesn’t really exist yes. It’s kind of hard to target the shadow playstyle without shadowform or VE. I imagine we will see shadow getting broken in the next phase. It sucks, but I would rather wait for proper shadow support than get something half thought out now.

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But that’s the problem, we accepted that hopefully in future phases things sort itself out and if it doesn’t? We back to the same situation.

We should be voicing our concerns and changes and feedback now before things go further south.

That’s why I did a comparison with Mind Flay and now Free Cast Wrath moving into phase 2, our initial abilities do not scale, they improved by Rank, Mind Flay literally cannot compete. A lot of our abilities don’t. This is a problem we can see now.

Even Mind Flay at Rank 3 with 40% damage increase and 50% through Twisted Faith doesn’t compete. And Costs us 100 Mana. But remove the mana cost and it has some worth. Yeah it does less damage but we have a reliable way to get Shadow Weaving and Maintain it.

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Let me know when i am aloud to use this on my hunter. Currently its lion or bust.