Fix assa rogue

[Lakeshark-stormrage]

Please address issues with assassination rogue. It’s just a 2s spec and random shuffle lobbies. The spec feels bad.

There’s not a single gladiator assa rogue in the world.

Deathmark is a trash burst CD. Can be dispelled by pally,evoker, survival and other rogues and so many dwarfs running around to cleanse it. It takes too long to ramp up bleeds just for them to be cleansed every 1 min by evoker.

Our 2p lets us not restealth which is pretty crippling. Can’t even try to re for additional stuns or silences.

Losing sap blind was horrendous for assa rogue and our limited cc kit. We had to vanish to sap off blind, we don’t have free dances to blow, so it always felt like s fair trade to me.

and no running dance as assa is a terrible build. We don’t have the burst potential to use dance to be a cc bot for our team.

Assa was only good season one because it was overtuned paired with a buggy deathmark that doubled wound poison effect, after multiple nerfs to deathmark and then FINALLY fixing the wound poison issue, our spec died off and everyone swapped sub.

Barely an offensive threat and if we’re targeted in 3s/shuffle we just die because it’s so easy to force cooldowns.

Meanwhile sub just livelords and went from a high skillcap spec to braindead cdr abuser. If they nerf sub cdr, which they need to, all specs of rogue will be garbage.

Assa has 0 defensive talents in its tree, you guys added a cloak defensive talent that now sub runs against assa which is pretty funny, this should be assa/outlaw specific imo with all the defensive utility sub has. They don’t need access to another tool.

Hardnerfed exsang to 3min cd while warrior has 21s cd on skullsplitter and it’s a similar ability? Please fix this talent because having to chose MA to move down the tree when we can barely restealth is a wasted talent. MA doesn’t mean anything when you pop out of stealth with no dots on the target and unless the 2p is fixed you won’t even get that.

No point using amp poison when we’re forced to pick up deadly as our first talent, deadly should honestly be baseline for assa rogue. If you use amp over wound you’re throwing, if you use amp over deadly you’ve been forced to waste a talent in the tree

I’m going to be posting this multiple times because it seems like Mud making a bunch of warrior posts in one week saying his class feels bad got fury and arms buffed. No offense to him, just seems like all the traction he got making posts non stopped worked.

[Raïsin-moon-guard]

@Lakeshark-stormrage

There’s not a single gladiator assa rogue in the world.

Drake.

So I guess you’re wrong.

Also assa needs to never be playable kthx

[Paulbuffano-tichondrius]

This perfectly sums up the forums. Bitter whiney little babies.

[Elfindre-tichondrius]

strong words from someone that is you.

[Kdøt-bleeding-hollow]

I mean OP isn’t wrong. Assa fell off hard with repeated nerfs in S1. The rare time I que into one they typically flop and die.

I haven’t played it in a while and I’m not sure what they need to be more viable. Obviously damage buffs would help but I feel like that’s not their main problem. I feel like they need some defensives to be able to stay in the fight longer in order to get their damage out. Sub just has so much more control and survivability than Assa, it feels incomplete and outdated - only propped up by damage in S1.

[Stumblin-emerald-dream (Stumblin)]

please never make assa viable ever please

[Onsslaught-sargeras]

This is a depend who you talk to kind of subject I guess. There are those who rather face an Assa Rogue than a Sub Rogue right now. On here it seems no one wants Assa

[Gleyeardorix-area-52]

How many times do we have to go over this. Assa is completely fine, it’s only downside is that it isn’t sub. If sub wasn’t S tier you’d see a lot more assa rogues. However it might be in a pretty bad spot next week with the changes to the meta.

@Lakeshark-stormrage

Losing sap blind was horrendous for assa rogue and our limited cc kit

Sap blind was a toxic combo anyways and probably should’ve been removed a long time ago. A solo instant 16 second long cc chain shouldn’t exist. It’s been redesigned to work how it should have always. It requires some input from your teamates where you sap out of one of their cc’s then blind off.

@Lakeshark-stormrage

Barely an offensive threat and if we’re targeted in 3s/shuffle we just die because it’s so easy to force cooldowns.

Assa still has insane pressure, if you feel like you don’t have any pressure it’s probably you not the spec. Assa defensively is how all rogues should be, if you play bad you die, but if you play well you can survive for a really long time. The ludicrous survivability sub rogue has right now should never exist in this game.

@Lakeshark-stormrage

MA to move down the tree when we can barely restealth is a wasted talent.

If you think MA is bad, it means you’re bad at rogue.

@Lakeshark-stormrage

No point using amp poison when we’re forced to pick up deadly as our first talent

Just don’t play amp poison then? Plenty of specs have talent options that are generally useless in most situations.

Sure assa isn’t S tier, and sure it could potentially use some minor buffs, but acting like it’s a dogsheet terrible spec is just dumb.

[Protøman-drakthul]

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

Sap blind was a toxic combo anyways and probably should’ve been removed a long time ago. A solo instant 16 second long cc chain shouldn’t exist

Fine but 2 minute cd on 5 second disorient feels bad too.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

Assa defensively is how all rogues should be, if you play bad you die, but if you play well you can survive for a really long time

Assa is pretty clearly weak defensively compared to other melee. Losing double vanish, combat rediness, and heavily reduced efficacy on feint over the years leaves it lacking in the healing, mobility, or tankiness other melee use to survive.

The spec plainly just needs a rework, it feels awful to play. There’s nothing special or cool about playing assassination rogue.

[Gleyeardorix-area-52]

@Protøman-drakthul

Fine but 2 minute cd on 5 second disorient feels bad too.

If you have a teamate use any cc before you blind you can sap off. Which is how it should be. Rogue shouldn’t be able to just insantly force a 16 second cc chain by themselves. However now it’s I think 11 seconds when paired with a teamates cc. That’s balanced and good for the game.

@Protøman-drakthul

Assa is pretty clearly weak defensively compared to other melee. Losing double vanish, combat rediness, and heavily reduced efficacy on feint over the years leaves it lacking in the healing, mobility, or tankiness other melee use to survive.

Here’s the thing. Rotating defensives on rogue isn’t easy. But when done properly rogues can feel impossible to kill. If you’ve ever played against Drake or other good assa rogues, it’s incredibly hard to kill them. It’s similar to ww monks. Their best defensive is positioning and kitting. If they are able to due that properly they feel immortal. There’s a reason that rogue is considered one of the hardest specs in the game, and it’s not because of it’s offensive pressure. Any monkey with a keyboard can go in on any spec and do insane damage, but doing that while playing smart defensively is what makes the spec hard since if you just tank damage and trade cd’s you will flop. Also acting like assa mobility is bad is insane. Step is probably the best mobility ability in the game, but one again if you use it like an ape it will feel terrible.

@Protøman-drakthul

The spec plainly just needs a rework, it feels awful to play. There’s nothing special or cool about playing assassination rogue.

There are at least 7 specs that need a rework before you’d even think about assa.

[Protøman-drakthul]

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

If you have a teamate use any cc before you blind you can sap off. Which is how it should be. Rogue shouldn’t be able to just insantly force a 16 second cc chain by themselves. However now it’s I think 11 seconds when paired with a teamates cc. That’s balanced and good for the game.

You still can force a 16 second CC chain by yourself though if you throw in a kidney or even cheapshot beforehand. 5 second blind just doesn’t make sense on a 2 minute cooldown. Not to mention with the context of assassination, you’re going to have to burn your only vanish if you want to sap off of it, wasting one of your already limited defensive options.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

It’s similar to ww monks. Their best defensive is positioning and kitting. If they are able to due that properly they feel immortal.

Funny you brought this up because it’s one of those specs I was talking about that has superior mobility that keeps them alive. WW even with that is still pretty easy to kill.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

There’s a reason that rogue is considered one of the hardest specs in the game, and it’s not because of it’s offensive pressure. Any monkey with a keyboard can go in on any spec and do insane damage, but doing that while playing smart defensively is what makes the spec hard

Traditionally sub is considered the harder spec since you have more to manage setting things up and pay closer attention to DRs, all while doing the above, even though sub’s survivability is much better.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

Also acting like assa mobility is bad is insane. Step is probably the best mobility ability in the game, but one again if you use it like an ape it will feel terrible.

When compared to other melee, it straight up is. It’s very hard to deny that. Again, you bring up step, but sub rogue has 2 charges of that on a reduced cooldown. You don’t even have maneuverability to get a freedom sprint anymore.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

There are at least 7 specs that need a rework before you’d even think about assa

I’m sure, doesn’t change anything though.

[Gleyeardorix-area-52]

@Protøman-drakthul

You still can force a 16 second CC chain by yourself though if you throw in a kidney or even cheapshot beforehand.

But you are losing kidney on kill target to do so, or you need to somehow cheapshot the healer without wasting Vanish. If your doing it in the opener you would be better off just sapping most of the time, if you use it off a random restealth midgame you’ll have significantly less pressure than you would before. Since you wouldn’t be able to have dots rolling on your kill target while your setting up the cc. The only other option would be to go nelf which is significantly worse than both human and orc for rogue, since not being able to get out of stuns is lethal.

@Protøman-drakthul

Funny you brought this up because it’s one of those specs I was talking about that has superior mobility that keeps them alive. WW even with that is still pretty easy to kill.

Assa has a lot more cc than ww though. It’s stun if half the cd of monks and it has blind. Rogues defensives are also just overall better than ww in most situations, where you can just burn through them half the time.

@Protøman-drakthul

Traditionally sub is considered the harder spec since you have more to manage setting things up and pay closer attention to DRs, all while doing the above, even though sub’s survivability is much better.

Sub used to be that way, but since they gave them double vanish + cdr reduction on it, anyone can be a livelord on the spec it’s incredibly forgiving. It also has a ton of ways to prolong games and play for their incredibly broken 1 shots.

@Protøman-drakthul

When compared to other melee, it straight up is. It’s very hard to deny that. Again, you bring up step, but sub rogue has 2 charges of that on a reduced cooldown. You don’t even have maneuverability to get a freedom sprint anymore.

Which melee have better mobility than assa then? Dk? no. Ret? no. War? no. enh? no. Feral? Honestly kinda even. dh? Sure ww? Sure. That’s 2.5 melee specs with “better mobility” But even with that, there are tons of situations where you’d much rather have double step with one of the better slows in the game then any of mobility they have.

@Protøman-drakthul

I’m sure, doesn’t change anything though

I guess? But even the other 2 rogue specs deserve a rework before assa does. Outlaw is unplayable garbage and sub has the most toxic playstyle of any other spec in the game. Compared to those 2 assa is perfectly fine.

[Protøman-drakthul]

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

But you are losing kidney on kill target to do so, or you need to somehow cheapshot the healer without wasting Vanish. If your doing it in the opener you would be better off just sapping most of the time, if you use it off a random restealth midgame you’ll have significantly less pressure than you would before. Since you wouldn’t be able to have dots rolling on your kill target while your setting up the cc. The only other option would be to go nelf which is significantly worse than both human and orc for rogue, since not being able to get out of stuns is lethal.

You’re right, which just further shows how bad 5 second 2 min cd blind feels.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

Which melee have better mobility than assa then? Dk? no. Ret? no. War? no. enh? no. Feral? Honestly kinda even. dh? Sure ww? Sure. That’s 2.5 melee specs with “better mobility” But even with that, there are tons of situations where you’d much rather have double step with one of the better slows in the game then any of mobility they have.

This feels kind of disingenuous because we both know that I said it lacks the healing, mobility, OR tankiness other melee use to survive. I won’t go through each of those classes because I’m sure you get the picture, but I do want to say that I’d say feral mobility is better than assassination rogue just because they’re essentially immune to slows and roots.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

I guess? But even the other 2 rogue specs deserve a rework before assa does. Outlaw is unplayable garbage and sub has the most toxic playstyle of any other spec in the game.

Agreed, but this thread is about assassination rogues.

[Gleyeardorix-area-52]

@Protøman-drakthul

You’re right, which just further shows how bad 5 second 2 min cd blind feels.

Balanced is bad I guess haha xd. It’s still an auto trinket button if used correctly.

@Protøman-drakthul

but I do want to say that I’d say feral mobility is better than assassination rogue just because they’re essentially immune to slows and roots.

Debatable. double step is very strong. The ability to teleport to a target and stun then, do your go, then teleport out is very powerful.

@Protøman-drakthul

Agreed, but this thread is about assassination rogues.

And I said in that paragraph that it’s completely fine.

[Protøman-drakthul]

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

Debatable. double step is very strong. The ability to teleport to a target and stun then, do your go, then teleport out is very powerful.

Sure but if you want to do that then you’re sitting pillar for a minute before you can move anywhere again.

@Gleyeardorix-area-52

Balanced is bad I guess haha xd. It’s still an auto trinket button if used correctly.

For assassination it doesn’t make sense. Sub can get away with it since it has more access to sap, but blowing a vanish on an already slow, squishy class is just not good.

[Paulbuffano-tichondrius]

Strong words from someone that is you.

[Elfindre-tichondrius]

idk was it strong??

[Lakeshark-stormrage]

Explain to me how MA is good for assa? By time you open with MFD kidney and get garrote up the buff is gone. It’s meaningless. What are you going to do, waste vanish to offensively do damage? One of your best defensive cds? Lol

And you miss the point with my amp poison comment. THE FIRST TALENT IN ASSA TREE IS DEADLY POISON. It feels like a waste to not use deadly when you’re forced to talent into it no matter what assa spec you play

[Stickysavior-mugthol (Stickysavior)]

This thread needs mr. crabs and his worlds smallest violin.

[Lakeshark-stormrage]

say what you will but warriors complaining all week on the forums got themselves an unneeded change, so im going to complain til i see a change instead of being forced to wait til s3 for a rogue rework.

tbh all blizzard needs to do is fix esang, make deadly baseline and fix our 2p so we can restealth and the spec will be way more playable.