First Melee Support Spec: Blood

Classes Death Knight
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[[ Apologies for getting ragebaited and derailing my own thread. Please still try to keep the conversation flowing. Thank you. ]]

Death Knights have been missing their unique bite for a while now. They used to feel like the class that bent the rules, but over time, their kit has gotten muddied and safe. I think it’s time to bring that distinct flavor back.

And yeah, it’s a hot take, but Blood should probably become the first true melee support spec. It already leans heavily on leeching, shielding, etc, so why not lean all the way in and make it about empowering your group instead of just being a heal gimmick tank? If that shift happens, Frost is the natural candidate to pick up the tank mantle. I know it could ruffle some feathers losing a tank/dps role for those who enjoy it (I do love Frost DPS), but that doesn’t mean that they’re not living up to their potential and fantasy.

On top of that, Rider of the Apocalypse just doesn’t hold up. It sounds cool on paper, but in practice it feels clunky and gimmicky, and honestly, summoning the Horsemen like they’re throwaway fodder is lore-breaking and silly.

That’s why Rider needs to go. Instead, we should get a Hero Spec that comes from where Death Knights have actually been: the Maw. The Ebon Blade fought there, survived there. That’s the natural evolution for DKs. A spec built around chains, binding, and torment.

I’ve theory crafted a Blood Support, Frost Tank, and Chain-Caller Hero Spec builds too. I just know all too well no one’s going to read walls of text. Am I alone in thinking Blizzard just has it and got it wrong?

EDIT: Worth mentioning as well that they missed the design fantasy of San’layn by lightyears. I fixed that spec up too. It needs to summon Nightlings (red themed Withered models), rework its proc with Vampiric Strikes to Sanguine Coils for Unholy, Blood Beast should likely be a massive “Venthyr” Gargoyle-Bat. It’s more bloody surgeon summoner than anything akin to San’layn.

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No. Death Knights arent supporters, they are meant to kill. Thats the class fantasy that Blizzard has admitted to.

Blood just isnt designed well as a tank. It has always had issues since Cata.

Unholy is just as much of a candidate as Frost.

Frost is a dps spec. The only thing that its not living up to at the moment is being a DW spec that it was designed to be.

Hero specs were supposed to represent a hero unit from the RTS games so they dont have to keep making new hero classes.

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But why double down on something that’s clearly never worked the way it should, all in the name of “Death Knights are supposed to kill”? That logic falls flat when we’re talking about a tank. Tanks don’t exist just to kill, they exist to control and support the group. Blood would do the same and can still DPS, it just shifts its utility to prop the team up in interesting ways instead of endlessly trying to bandaid over its flaws as a heal-gimmick tank.

And the RTS comment doesn’t really hold up either. Not every class in WoW even has a direct RTS counterpart. Hero specs don’t need to be shackled to a twenty-year-old design bible, dude – they need to evolve with the game and give specs fresh fantasy that actually works.

Ice and frost feel more like the armored and resilient candidate. I know Unholy has great disease play, but it wouldn’t take much to flip Frost where it’s at right now into a tank. This is subjective, honestly, but you’ve got some outlandish and wild takes there, bud.

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What hasnt worked the way it should?

It doesnt.

They do.

It does but ok?

Those classes arent Hero Classes either. Death Knight is the Hero Spec.

Well, they do because thats what they are based on. Dont like it go to another game.

Go play a new game then. This game is 21 years old and its going to be tied to the games prior to that.

To you, but thats the reality within the game. I dont care how you feel about it, the truth is that Frost is and always has been a primarily dps spec. This isnt subjective either, the amount of tank talents explicitly say that Blood is tank, frost and unholy are dps as a primary role.

You literally have the outlandish takes. You say Blood should be melee support which there is nothing for that. You even called it a hot take which would be the unpopular take, which would be outlandish. You guys always project your nonsense onto other people because you cant take any responsibility or accountability with your piss poor takes.

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If you’re going to keep posting takes about Death Knights, then actually play the class you claim to have a stake in. Right now, it just feels like you’re flooding the DK forums with armchair fandom and no receipts. If you don’t take the class into real content (raids, keys, PvP, anything that shows you’ve actually put it through its paces) then your words don’t carry much weight.

Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, sure, but opinions without substance don’t move the needle. If you want to be heard, bring something real to the table besides inflammatory nonsense with zero substance. Otherwise, maybe stop plaguing the DK forums with surface-level one-liners and let the people who are actually in the trenches with the class push the conversation forward.

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Because the entire point is that you are effectively a glorified vampire. Entirely self serving on the shield and blood leeching.

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What are you going to do if I keep posting about DK? Dont like that im destroying your arguments so you have to go to the time old stupid argument of “but you dont play the game”. That doesnt stop you from being wrong buddy.

Your opinions dont move the needle and arent based in anything other than some fan fiction that you wish you could force onto Blizzard.

Blood is a tank, the self healing thing is too hard to balance and design so it should be changed. You shouldnt throw it out and say “melee support” because Death Knights do not give a damn about anything. Not their pets, not the people on the battlefield with them. It makes 0 sense to make DK a support in any capacity.

Aw someones mad that I said their ideas were bad. Your ideas are bad.

You dont want to play in the trenches, you want to shut people up that dont agree with your bad ideas. Case in point, all of your posts after your first one. So stop trying to ruin the entire game because you want your crappy fan fiction to be put in the game.

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“I’m destroying your arguments” = I don’t have one.

Having strong takes and opinions on Death Knights without actually playing it is like reviewing a band’s album without ever listening to the music. You’re just judging the cover art.

Ideas about class design aren’t “right” or “wrong” – it’s not a math problem, kid. I stated you had some outlandish takes from your borderline psychotic dissection para-quoting of me.

My opinions are moving the needle in the discussion I crafted to have – you’re stunting that progress. You stunt it more by being out of the loop by not playing, and looking over your armory…you were never good or committed in the first place. It begs the question: why are you even here?

When you fail at something so many times, sometimes it’s important to go back to the drawing board and perhaps try something else.

Death Knights have a unique need to cause suffering, but that isn’t the crux of their identity. The Ebon Blade is currently in a position to try to safeguard Azeroth, they try and keep the Scourge at bay, they’re uniquely suited to battle darker and deadlier forces, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Heart of the Tarragrue comes up again as a way to shield against the Void’s influence, perhaps. Some Death Knights are even back with their respective factions fighting for it as well. You’re incredibly unimaginative and shortsighted.

You can call my ideas bad all day – that doesn’t bother me. What does bother me is rudimentary ragebait aimed to attack than to contribute.

I’m not trying to shut anyone up. I gave you my rebuttal on why I thought your ‘oNlY kIlL sTuFf!!11one’ was flawed.

In older iterations of Blood DK, they had abilities like Blood Aura, Mark of Blood, Blood Worms that healed the party. Blizzard already had heal/leech support for the group in the game before – your argument for “aren’t supporters” is DOA, much like your entire WoW account.

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Well thats just a dumb thing to say.

Those arent equal at all because i have played DK.

Wrong again buddy. I dont know how you guys can say something so wrong so confidently.

Yeah, they actually can be.

So then why arent you advocating for DK’s to use nature magic like druids… would that maybe be a wrong thing to do because it doesnt fit into the equation that makes up a DK?

What outlandish takes? Stating I have outlandish takes and not providing any evidence is just stupid. Kid.

No its not.

Good, because your ideas are bad.

You want Blood to become a melee support. You want to talk about me being out of the loop, you arent even in the vicinity of the loop.

To keep the DK class to continue being the Dk class and not have dumb fan fictions dictate where it goes by people that dont actually care about the game.

Yes, it quite literally is.

Because they arent affected by the void whispers. This doesnt mean they want to support a mage. They have to inflict pain and death.

Because Blizzard killed off the Lich King.

Because void whispers do nothing to undead.

Yeah, says the person that wants to change the DK from what Blizzard created them as.

Yes it does. It absolutely does or you wouldnt have spent this much time trying to defend them and trying to shut me up.

Yes you are. Stop lying.

No you didnt lol.

And? That doesnt create the basis for DK SUPPORT NOW!

No its not, they literally arent group support. Go play a paladin if you want group support. What a loser.

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We might be playing different games, Lumy. Nothing screams “glorified vampire” to me when playing Blood – even with San’layn attached to it. It’s closer to a muddied Blood-themed Necromancer from Diablo (which I wouldn’t mind them leaning more into instead of trying to pretend we’re Vampiric at all in design or theme). Just my two cents, though.

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You are. Its pretty clear at this point. Nothing screams vampire like stealing health from your opponent!

Talk about a bad take.

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Remember when I said that you’re incredibly unimaginative? This still stands. Using or harnessing blood magic doesn’t automatically only make you a Vampire. We’ve seen Blood Mages from the Defias, Blood Trolls from Nazmir, Bleeding Hollow Clan, etc. These are not vampires.

Also, I’m done trying to “debate” a psychotic dismissive contrarian. You are disgustingly exhausting. This isn’t me conceding, I just can’t continue to give you a platform in good faith.

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Yeah, and it was just as wrong then as it is now.

Thats not what I said. You are a perfect example of a dishonest person.

And?

And?

Never said they were?

You havent been debating anything. You havent disputed anything, just lied and slandered because thats all you can do.

Im sure I am because you are a liar. Liars get exhausted when trying to keep track of all their lies.

Yes it is.

So now you own the forums? You arent giving me a platform, Blizzard is. See, more lies from a deranged human being called Northbâne.

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Kind of a case and point that the general DK community on this forum REALLY should go play wotlk classic, and let retail breathe. But I’m ready to get quoted and disagreed with some snarky remark.

Community generally claims about raw DPS players being mindless number-chasers to the point it’s a straight-up meme. Yet the concept of support is proposed and people get this pitchforks out, just look at aug.

This is a community problem, not a design problem. Wouldn’t even call it community, more like- gatekeepers.

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Wrath Classic is long gone.

Aug is a failure. People dont like it, it doesnt fit within the design of the game and it shows.

Death Knights arent supporters though. Its that simple. There are classes and specs out there that exist if you want to be a melee supporter. Go play them, dont ruin a class that is focused on hitting people in the face with a weapon by making it some support nonsense. Death Knights are meant to bring death.

There is a difference between having an aura or a parasite bursting, and being relegated to some buff totem.

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Uh.

Re working a decade plus old spec from tank into support deserves pitchforks. You arent making a new spec, you’re forcing people who play the spec to change what they do with that spec.

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I actually know people that like it, so that’s false. It fits into the flow of the game for players that would rather not chase parse, but would prefer to elevate other players to higher levels, but not watch health bars. But the community didn’t really give it a chance to be tuned appropriately, or give enough data for aug players to track efficacy.

Also unless you’re Ion, you probably don’t know what the intended design of something should be.

Says you. DK started with multiple tank specs and that was changed. So change is possible.

Unholy DK still a thing, Frost DK still a thing. I believe OP was referring to Blood. You can go play those.

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Imagine not changing for a decade and being okay with that. Let’s change frost to tank, and blood to support. I’ve heard at least the frost tank request every season.

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It doesn’t deserve it. However, pitchforks are deserved for a spec not to work for a decade plus.

Spec changes have happened before with reworks and redesigns, and this one’s only scary because its role is being changed. -But that’s due to a design flaw in balancing its concept. You’d rather them keep getting it wrong than try a new role avenue and Frost take its place?

What I’m seeing is if they keep getting Blood Tank wrong, it moves people off the spec, but you’re worried it could do the same if the role changed? It’s better to try something new to see if it works than force the circle into the triangle hole.

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Son.
People having opinions doesn’t make them right opinions.