Deathwing/N’zoth and Mal’ganis/The Jailer were separate antagonists serving different cosmic forces but both had a shared interest in weakening the Alliance. They weren’t working with one another, just towards similar goals as far as Azeroth was concerned.
3 Likes
It seems like N’zoth is working against the jailer. His whispers are too on the nose and I think Deathwings speech to Thrall in Charge of the Aspects about how the Titans were using Azeroth is true.
I hope the narrative retroactively redeems Deathwing.
In a cosmic sense yes, but they were both trying to weaken the Alliance for their own goals. Their ultimate objectives differed but their immediate objectives were the same.
In fact, when you include the Legion, there were no less than 3 cosmic forces all plotting against the Alliance in the leadup to Warcraft 3. That the Alliance survived Warcraft 3 at all remains nothing short of a miracle.
2 Likes
The Horde were brought to Azeroth to save the planet and the Alliance… how about that for irony… poor Medivh duped by the Legion.
We were duped too.
Fun fact in Thee Sisters, the void is essentially going all “Kill it, Kill it, Kill it” to Alleria when she meets with Sylvanas, a being of Death. So the Void is very much against Death.
I’m rather curious on how Deathwing was handled by the Arbiter. Unlike other antagonist like Zul, Neltharion was personally corrupted by the Old Gods into becoming Deathwing. And we don’t know if void influence is taken into account when judging a soul or even if the infusion of too much void, like what with happened to Deathwing at the end of Dragon Soul, could effect Deathwing’s soul or even ended up sending him to where other creatures of the Void like the Old Gods go upon death, if they go somewhere.
1 Like
see I know that but N’Zoth predicts Sylvanas’s victory over Bolvar in his whisper “Queen threatens King, his crown will open the way.” N’Zoth wanted Sylvanas to breach the sky? and the new end of SoD cinematic, “when the last arrow hits it’s mark all fetters will fall away”
N’Zoth knows more about fate than we or even the jailer. How did he not see his own fate?
100% N’Zoth is not dead. The Void wanted Alleria to see Sylvanas as a minion of the Jailer and the thousand truths that Sylvanas may lose herself to the Jailer’s domination and because she sominated Anduin … who is about to fulfill Velen’s prophesy relating to the worst Lich King, far worse than Arthas.
It made way more sense before the jailer was introduced that Sylvanas was working with/for the Old Gods and Yogg-Saron and the reason Alleria saw her as an enemy because she was destined to serve N’Zoth herself. Yogg-Saron and N’Zoth have always fought for dominance among themselves since Y’shaaj was killed.
N’zoth, and other Void entities, can see all possibilities simultaneously but they don’t actually know which one is truly going to happen. In fact, their whole concept of “the truth” is alien to ours.
N’Zoth also said that “Only I can save this world. Yield… and serve!”
So I figure N’Zoth was saying, in his own way, “You have two options, serve me and my Black Empire or my defeat seals an even worse fate for Azeroth.”
1 Like
1 Like
since we haven’t seen him hanging around Revendreth I would assume the latter.
But he was shown in the Ardenweald campaign in Y’sera’s memories, I know he was mentioned in the play but I don’t remember if they hinted if is soul went to Shadowlands. Being an “earthwarder” he may be sent to Ardenweald.
The Ardenweald covenant mechanic of the Queen’s garden or whatever, you can bring souls back and give them a second chance. i imagine they will use that mechanic to revive a few of Azeroth’s notorious lost souls.
It’s been pretty strongly suggested that Old Gods don’t really “die” in the same sense that we would normally consider the word. They are “outside the cycle” in their own words and cases like Y’saarj seem to give credibility to it.
1 Like
He panics at Sylvanas and Azshara’s partnership and demands we kill Azshara when we face one of the Zoatroids he has lurking around Nazjatar so yes he is opposed to Zovaal.
Incidentally Gul’dan is well aware that the Female entity named Death(and as the First One Realm in the Shadowlands is as you mentioned is named Mortis which is Female in Latin) is coming for Azeroth’s Soul and brags about it so it seems the Legion is fully on Zovaal’s side.
The Legion and Mawsworn are both on Death’s side in the end while the Old Gods are on the Void’s side trying to defend themselves from Death’s return.
What is Death? Is Death a First One or an Eldritch Abomination seeking the End of All Things(while Zovaal attempts to rebuild existence in his image) that the First Ones sealed away in the Sepulcher and drew Anima from in order to create the Shadowlands?
If the latter then how do we know that Zereth Mortis is the only Home Plane of the First Ones? For all we know the First Ones stuffed all 6 Cosmic Forces’ Rulers into central Realms of each Cosmic Realm for the sake of keeping them in Balance and set up shop in each of the Cosmic Forces’ prisons to make sure they are all contained!
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Expedition_Report_A37J_-_Part_1 seems to imply the Cosmic Forces created their Cosmic Realms:
These six forces existed in strife. Well, not strife in the way one such as you or I would see it. Opposition surely, but whether malignant or benign is unclear. There was imbalance, until there was a need for something more.
They came together (or were brought together, depending on how one interprets the fractal) and gave form to their design. Forged? Scribed? Shaped? The exact word is elusive. Each architect gave a portion of themselves, and thus the pattern was drawn.
It is from here that the language becomes clearer.
If the Cosmic Forces were their own entities imprisoned by the First Ones what does that make the First Ones themselves? Perhaps the 7th Cosmic Force?
Everliving Statuette: The seventh covets what the six hold fast. The fulcrum wavers. All will be undone.
If the First Ones are the 7th Cosmic Force then their goal is to claim the World Soul just like all other Cosmic Forces. They will praise us for killing Death while making a secret visit to Azeroth’s World Soul to convert her to a First One-Empowered Titan(if she isn’t secretly the ruler of the First Ones’ own Cosmic Force to begin with in the same way Death is the ruler of Death).
I believe that. anyone who says “old gods are dead” are lying to themselves. Old Gods are parasites that won’t die unless you kill the host. For Old Gods to die Azeroth has to die and if you kill the Old Gods azeroth dies, they are like connected into her ley line veins at this point.
I don’t think that they really die in the sense that Naaru don’t really die. As in, they don’t have a soul that goes to the Shadowlands, they simply become something else or they disperse into their parent element.
I’ve always wondered if, since Old Gods are the Void equivalent to Naaru, if Old Gods have a Light-cycle similarly to how Naaru have a Void-cycle.
Come to think of it, they’re basically elementals.
See, I would believe this, except there is dialogue from Legion generals that say explicitly “without Fel the Shadow would be unstoppable.” The Legion was in part created as a way to defeat the Jailer. None of the pieces fit together here and I think that’s why everyone is growing frustrated by the lack of answers.
Objectively, Zorvall could have convinced Sargeras that the only way to save the universe was to destroy it, and Sargeras was just trying to do us all a favor by killing Azeroth before Zorvall could consume her soul. Sargeras was just being a bro by stabbing our planet.
One of the things that i thought was a thing was in Chronice, Sargeras planet killer sword looks like a runeblade. i thought they could have made a cool story with how Zorvall gifted Sargeras that sword… but that doesn’t make sense. What does make more sense is that Sargeras got that blade from the Primus. in the ancient war the legion attacked Maldraxxus, this info was released at the start of 9.1 in the primus sigil quest.
Maldraxxus and the Legion have history, and Gul’dan had some kind of relationship with the primus because it was the Maldraxxi who taught his warlocks necromancy and domination magic and where he got his artifact weapons and the head of his staff. it makes far more sense that the Legion was fully on the side of the Primus.
At some point the Maldraxxi must have known about the Horde and did nothing to stop the Horde from invading Azeroth, they knew Gul’dan was manipulating Ner’zul and did nothing…someone should really read into that. The Primus is hiding things or at the very least witholding his involvement and support of the Legion. I’m worried that we just handed the Primus/Runecarver all four sigils and the full might of the covenants because as much as everyone seems to trust him, I don’t.
The sus thing about the Runcarver/The Primus is he seems like he was originally the Jailer, and if he dominated Zorvall who was originally the Arbiter, that’s suspicion enough to ask him to explain why he made that choice. I don’t by the excuse “he failed his purpose,” okay, can you expand on that?
In one of the Bastion world quests they established that all elemental being can sort go to a place in limbo to be judged rather they can pass and go to the shadowlands (demons and naaru for example), but due to how the universe is ordered they are immediately sent back to the twisting nether or back to where they’ve originally came from to maintain balance.
It’s a sign that they’re not confident in the story’s ability to stand on its own. So they’re relying on mystery boxes, macguffins, and “wait and see” all the way to the end of the expansion.
Not that I don’t believe you, but source? I would love to read more.
I just said the world quests in bastion called limbo.
It’s the limbo quest.
It’s explained Kyrians are the ones responsible for:
- Putting Lich souls back into their phylacteries
- Chucking Naaru, elementals, demons, into their respective planes
- Allowing necromancy to work in reality
- Can’t intervene in necromancy but can “revive” heroes to kill necromancers that upset the balance of life and death
8 Likes