I think the fear is that threat is going to be completely trivial now and therefore killing another aspect of tanking
It happened in wow I want to say in…legion? I don’t remember but at some point it became a complete joke. The last time I honestly remember worrying about threat was in BC
Threat was always trivial except in certain conditions in order to meet some DPS checks. Otherwise, unless you’re going for speed kill or high parse, you can just turn on tank stance and leave it on, or turn it off if you’re good enough and your party cooperates with you.
Not completely following you there.
What I was mostly saying is that tanks shouldn’t go from 5-6 combo abilities down to 3-4. Keep the abilities, just change their functionality to something other than threat generation.
I’m saying the enmity/DPS combos made them have two separate rotations that’s unnecessary.
I don’t really see the “dumbing down.” It looks more like they’re removing annoying, archaic or confusing mechanics to make place for new ones. Remember that unlike BfA they’re still adding 4 or 5 skills per class with the level increase, and we need room for those on our already full hotbars. So they need to prune the old stuff. That’s like when Blizzard removed weapon and defense skill from WoW. Technically they made the game simpler, but who the hell miss those?
I’m a bit worried that healers are getting homogenized though. While SCH will always be unique for being a “pet” healer, AST has been more or less WHM with cards ever since it was fixed mid-Heavensward, and WHM has been the poor kid ever since. And now they’re going to take WHM’s niche (pure healer) and give it to all other healers. I hope the new lilies and angel wings bring something unique to WHM, because the iconic Final Fantasy healer job used by all the cool FF girls throughout the series is better not be a bland one!
Agree with that point, I’m just looking a bit further ahead.
They said they were removing the “threat combo”… which can mean one of two things:
Yes, there is no need to have different rotations to threat and DPS.
That doesn’t mean you can’t more than one three-ability combo WITHIN the rotation.
I will miss DA tbh.
I think they went a bit overboard in SB, but I like the idea of giving you control and choices.
I suppose if blood Guage is used instead for this then that’s okay
Ok, I understand now. They can still do that or have one big rotation or just have separate combos for single and multi targets.
Live letter was awesome (minus technical issues) can’t wait for the expansion.
I tank, and there was nothing complicated about the stances or enmity combos that you did once a fight, glad they’re gone honestly
I don’t see this oversimplification and severe homogenization that you do, OP. I see them simplifying aspects that were unnecessarily clunky, adding diversity between classes while also improving utilities across the board, and responding to player feedback.
Didn’t comment on this perception earlier, but I am seeing something similar to what happened to WoW over the years… up to and including what happened with MoP.
“Simplification” is more or less incorrect, sounds like they aren’t taking away too many abilities (though the discussion over what the loss of the threat combo means it definitely is concern) and players should have roughly the same number of total abilities when done leveling in Shadowbringers; keep in mind this can be double the number of abilities WoW classes have. Some abilities could have the functionality merged together, which is par for the course.
However, there is some truth to “homogenization”… in the sense that several jobs are getting additional abilities that others already had. An easy example is PLD finally getting a gap-closer ability, something that was unique to DRK in Heavensward and WAR gained in Stormblood. Healers are moving to being more similar as well, though considering the history of difficulty WoW has had with balancing a certain “bubble priest spec”, it probably makes sense.
The trend would be that all the jobs are becoming closer to becoming “the complete package” from the added utility and functionality rather than each of them having a certain niche. Considering they’re noticing that certain jobs are far more desirable than others and group composition was becoming too rigid… again, it makes sense. It also sounds somewhat similar to the old WoW philosophy of “bring the player, not the class”.
All told, I don’t think these are necessarily bad changes. MoP gameplay in particular was very popular in WoW, but few could deny at that point that classes were starting to overlap a LOT due to all the toolkits expanding to the point they could do nearly everything for their role.
Most of WoW’s gameplay difficulties and complaints about pruning and over-simplification came AFTER MoP as they tried to give the classes more identity and uniqueness in combat by taking stuff away. It remains to be seen how FFXIV will handle this going forward, and I’m still hopeful they won’t make the same mistake WoW did with their pruning approach.
Nevertheless, there’s always an element of “wait and see” for all of this turns out. I’m largely optimistic about the changes and new abilities as it’s still leaning towards more functionality for everyone… but I can see everyone reaching the point where they’re starting to overlap more as well.
FFXIV may not be there yet, but they probably will be.
They already are talking about a squish at some point in the future, which is probably unavoidable, and many of the design decisions are very similar to WoW in terms of evolution.
Remember ARR is about 5 years behind. It seems they are changing things similarly in the timeline as WoW has.
The point is to learn from WoWs mistakes, which if they don’t, come 6.0 or 7.0, we will have pruned classes because this is how it started with WoW.
It sounds like that’s what they’re doing, but I’ll hold any judgments in until we actually play them. My hope is that they’ll do this and pave the way for us to get a new healer next expansion, since apparently this was holding them back somehow.
I’m considering boosting a scholar as a 2-for-1 deal
Not a bad idea. SMN is looking pretty sick too, with that phoenix summon. Personally I was never a fan of SCH’s playstyle but that’s just me, I’ve always mained WHM. Since I picked and leveled it first, I tried the other two and hated how much weaker their heals were. I couldn’t adjust to it.
My first leveling experience was back in ARR, (not gonna count 1.0 because I basically tried playing on opening and couldn’t get into it at all, and came crawling back to WoW which I believe was Wrath at that time?) and I did Ninja and didn’t cap until Heavensward was almost out.
At that point I switched to DRK and never played much else excep dragoon which is still 56.
After I got to 70 on DRK I got PLD to 70, and as in WoW, I gravitated to tanking mostly
In wow only healing I really did was shammy and paladin, and in FFXIV nothing. My conjurer is level 6.
WHM is the healer with the really powerful pure heals, enough to heal a tank to full in maybe 2 or 3 casts or less. SCH and AST are both weaker, but they offer utility that WHM doesn’t have and are a bit more complicated to play. AST is cool and fun to play but you have to know what all the cards do and how to use them/who to use them on. I always had mana troubles as AST for some reason, I’m sure I wasn’t playing it right. You can also pick between utilizing regens on some of your heals, or shields.
SCH is all about shields. Unfortunately for many SCH that I’m grouped with they don’t seem to understand how those work, and I see a lot of them throwing up the group-wide shield AFTER the damage AoE has gone out. I don’t really understand those people lol. It’s like disc priest I think, or how it used to be, you need to react to the damage before it happens and not after. At the very least though, it sounds like the fairy pet will be a lot easier to manage now.
Sorry if you knew all this already. I just like to talk about the game. ![:see_no_evil:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/see_no_evil.png?v=6" ":see_no_evil:")
I like the discussion
I only considered SCH because a $17.50 boost saves me days of leveling and I get a dps job too lol
Yeah I don’t blame you, it’s worth trying at the very least. Could even try them all in PotD if you’ve made it to 51-60, that would give you some idea of what they’re like.
I can’t do PotD
It drains my will to live