Feral/Guardian Shadowlands Suggestions from a 15 Druid Main

Good morning! While I don’t have access to Alpha, as a 15 year druid man, primarily in Feral and Guardian, I figured I would give my two cents on some possible changes and tweaks for the specs based on videos I’ve watched, notes in the various Alpha builds, and discussion I’ve seen by those both in the Alpha and commenting on it by my fellow furry friends. First, my suggestions will focus primarily on the feel and design of the classes, as numbers can always be adjusted, and the changes they made mid-expansion to both cat and bear were good steps in the right direction. Second, I am a PVE player so that is where my ideas are centered. And third, I’m tossing TONS of ideas, and this doesn’t mean I expect or wants ALL of the changes I’m going to talk about. I figure it’s better to toss in everything AND the kitchen sink, with the hope we can get some discussion and ideas flowing. I’ll cover feral, then guardian, and finally minor QoL for both in my feedback and suggestions.

Feral

  1. Bloodtalons: One of the few things the vast majority of Feral mains agree on is that Bloodtalons was fine. Why change it at all? Very much a case of “it wasn’t broken, but we fixed it anyways”. The new design seems very clunky and counter-intuitive, and not being able to choose which ability gets buffed removes player agency and decision-making from the rotation.

  2. The Un-pruning: Abilities missed Ashmane’s Frenzy (I know, we kind of have it as a talent now, but it’s much different and never taken in PVE), Jagged Wounds, Faerie Fire, Claws of Shirvallah, Artifact traits (Ashmane’s Bite, Shadow Thrash, Open Wounds), Leader of the Pack (more on that later). So many cool and interesting abilities removed throughout the years.

  3. Sabertooth: Many Ferals hate the “big bite” game play and a reduction of our focus on bleeds. I think this is a fine talent, but it is leaps and bounds better than the other options on the row (unless you are going heavy AOE then you take Predator). Either buff its competition in the talent tree, and/or bring back the execute mechanic for Ferocious Bite (Same effect as talent, except it’s only on enemies at 20% or less health).

  4. Cool-downs: They are not impactful and do not feel fun to press. Compare Berserk to things like Army of the Dead, Metamorphosis, Combustion windows, etc. And Incarnation, which is powerful, is outclasses by the other two options. Either buff Berserk or make Incarnation baseline. Boomkins get Celestial Alignment baseline and can spec into Incarnation, whereas if we spec Incarn, it replaces Zerk.

  5. Utility: Where is it? Feral, contrary to popular belief, actual pumps both ST and AOE. The problem is our distinct lack of utility. Our one unique piece that we only share with Bears is Stampeding Roar. However, come Shadowlands, Boomkins can have Solarbeam, Treants, Typhoon, Ursols’s Vortex, Innervate, B-rez, AND our Stampeding Roar combined! And Cyclone and Entangling Roots without shifting forms. Where is our unique and useful utility? Leader of the Pack, Mark of the Wild, Faerie Fire, Claws of Shiv versatility aura.

Guardian

  1. Utility Tax of a tank: Everyone knows how strong Resto is since they can throw HoTs on people, then catweave. Balance can off-heal with minor disruption to their rotation. Even as feral, I went Resto affinity on our guild’s healing intensive prog fights for the extra boost we needed to get kills. However, Guardian doesn’t have these utility opportunities. If we shift out of Bear Form to use our resto affinity, entangling roots to help kite, etc., we die. Imagine if to heal his group, a Protection Paladin unequipped his shield for 4-6 seconds while doing that healing, or if a Deathknight gripped something, he couldn’t Deathstrike for x amount of seconds. Make it so some more of our utility can be used in bear form. Slap a giant mana cost or CD’s on it if you have to. Group utility is pretty good, but suffers from the same problems as Feral in that Boomkin/Resto far outclasses us in the amount they provide. And why revert the ability to take typhoon and vortex as a bear? This was a GREAT change mid-BFA for us bears.

  2. Subpar abilities/talents: Primarily Lunarbeam and Maul. Lunarbeam is actual garbage, and even when running the Guardian back legendary with Boomkin shoulders build (max nature/arcane damage for self healing and damage), I never used this awful talent. Maul costs a ton of rage, and hits like a wet noodle. Buff it, or give it a new/additional effect. If I’m MAULING something it shouldn’t feel like I’m tickling a mob.

  3. Dealing with (Magic) Damage: Of course every tank has its strengths and weaknesses. Guardian’s has been magic the last few expansions, minus the start of legion and Mark of Ursol. I’m fine with it being gone, however, the way we dealt with Magic damage was A, having a giant healthpool, and B, using Frenzied Regeneration to heal up. However, when co-tanking with my similarily geared DK co-tank, we have the same health pool. And he can heal like crazy. I really miss things like Adaptive Fur, the extra frenzied regen stack AND it being based off the incoming damage as a way to add some thought to the use of your abilities. At the very least take Frenzied off the GCD, it feels awful.

  4. Un-pruning: Bear Hug (ST stun and %damage based on your health), Sharpened claws (built in thrash slow to help kiting), the infinite thrash proc (not actually, but it was a bit busted just tone it down), Scintillating Moonlight (moonfire giving damage reduction), RAGE OF THE SLEEPER (strong CD that could be defensive or offensive depending on what you needed), lacerate. I miss the Boomkin Shoulders/Bear cloak build from Legion, giving me more control over my health and not being so reliant on a healer. Legion added so much awesome stuff to Guardian, and then 99% of it was removed (a common occurrence for many specs, but several specs got their really cool stuff baked-in or kept as talent options at least).

  5. Stats and class fantasy: With all gear removed, why does Guardian Druid have crit, their most useless defensive secondary, as their secondary with the largest amount built in? (10% critical strike versus 4% mastery). When you imagine bears, do you picture some nimble, lithe animal dodging and weaving. Or do you picture an unstoppable juggernaut of fur and muscle taking the hit and plowing forward. Either change the stat weight, or maybe create a way for crit to benefit you more defensively (critical hits have a change to give you a shield or decaying max health, perhaps?)

Quality of Life for Both

  1. Visual and Audio Updates to Abilities: When I maul something, why does my sweet Legion-era bear skin revert to the old busted vanilla model, and breaks my back at a 90 degree angle? Why did you make the Feral abilities sound like low-budget sci-fi lasers? There are so many stunning animations and sounds in this game, so some love in this area would be nice. Our ability names (shred, rip, rake, mangle, thrash, swipe) are boring enough, they don’t need to sound and looking boring too.

  2. New forms: One of the best thing about Legion was without a doubt the various cool skins for our animal forms. Since everyone is getting sweet Covenant armor, why not create skins unique to the Covenant you choose for your Bear/Cat/Tree/Boomkin forms? This would really help sell the cosmetic side to me as a druid, since shifting forms kills any interest I have in mounts and what gear looks like.

Again, I’m throwing as many darts at the board with the hope that some of it sticks, or at least creates some discussion!

15 Likes

I think Blizz should take a serious look at Feline Adept and Ursine Adept again. Resto and Balance will always have a utility advantage because they don’t need to pay an extra shapeshift tax on every utility spell they cast. Ferals and Guardians do. Obviously for bears that tax is so high that it’s impossible to pay but Blizz should really look at the spells that AREN’T on the adept passives and justify why they aren’t there. Rebirth for Feral, Hibernate, Cyclone, Roots for both…

Plus it would be nice if Balance didn’t have all of Feral’s utility plus some extra stuff on the side like Innervate and Treants. Seriously the only piece of utility that Feral has that Balance doesn’t is Skull Bash while Balance counters with Innervate, Force of Nature, Solar Beam, and access to the Typhoon/Vortex combo. How that managed to slip by the devs when they were doing their unpruning is beyond me. For all this talk of unpruning, I feel more pruned this expansion than before. Scrolling dow to the Feral changes and just seeing half a sentence about Bloodtalons is a big lol.

3 Likes

The utility thing for me, is the biggest issue. Numbers and tuning can be adjusted pretty easily (look at all the flat percent buffs to damage and abilities Feral got every patch in Legion, for example). But how the class FEELS to play, and people wanting to bring it to groups, is most important of the problems that need addressed.

3 Likes

True. I got resto affinity mostly for Ysera’s Gift, though at first I believed that the healing spells may also come in handy. Well, as you say, whenever I want to pop a heal, I have to leave bear form. In most cases, I then either die or take a significant amount of damage, to the point that even with the heal I wind up with less hp then I started with.

At least we’re getting renewal as a talent in SL, but we definitely need more of our utility to be usable in bear form as you suggest. At least let us keep bear form stats for a few seconds after switching forms or something along that line.

1 Like

Upvote, plus I included a link to the crosspost on reddit which is still on the Front page of the /r/wow subreddit, and has generated some healthy discussion over there!

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/h0cce6/feralguardian_shadowlands_suggestions_from_a_15/

I dont think bloodtalons was ok. Having to cast a non-dps ability, to dps was ackward and a bad design. The new iteration is still kind of meh due to the timecrunch it has to apply, but its at least a step in the right direction.

I’m a long time feral player as well and one thing I’d like to see done is complete removal of the affinity row of talents and make it baseline. Druids are hybrids and that’s their big selling point. Why waste talents for us to get crappie versions of the utility we used to have baseline? For feral I’d love to get some of boomies utility added as well as leader of the pack being brought back.

I personally hated blood talons and like the big bite style so I’m diff than the op in that regard but maybe look at the talents and balance them appropriately so we can pick our playstyle.

Also a side note that’s pvp related I feel like ferals are too squishy without insane amounts of vers so maybe make bear form not suck again? That woukd be amazing

If they made it so it can empower any ability, I’d be onboard, or at least all of your finishers.