Maybe just revert the two nerfs ? 5% Rip dmg and circle of life and death?
Plus the ST is still pretty bad in a M+ build. For a complete ST boss environment in M+, feral is still struggling. If u take 5% bite dmg increase, then u lose energy regen and 30 max energy talent. That really does’t make ur ST better.
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You don’t need energy regen and the 30 extra energy only affects your opener, whereas the 15-20% constant increase to Bite is constant.
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it’s also 10% energy regen speed which is big in ST. 100 max energy with random clarity procs can lead to cap occasionally which is a waste too. if you don’t take that, but rather 5% bite, then u will find a lot of times u just stand there waiting for energy regen. U will do less bites this way though each bite hits harder. However the ST can be even lower this way. Feral ST is apparently not just a FB dmg thing, u def need to consider energy regen which is why haste is getting more important in ST
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That equates to 1 energy per second in regen…not all that great.
Hardly ever if you’re playing right. “Occasionally” doesn’t justify a talent point in my books
This is the Feral way - you’ve gotta wait for that 50 for full Bites regardless - use this time to Innervate, reposition, or use that Predatory Swiftness proc you’re holding onto - plenty to do while waiting for energy regen.
Apex procs make up for it - and the 15-20% increase in Bite damage outweighs the fewer Bites because your 1 energy per second (60 energy per minute) does not equate to missing out on 20% more Bites.
No, you rely on Crit for extra combo points so you don’t have to spend as much energy to get to your 5cp for your finisher.
Crit > Master > Haste
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That is before u get to the threshold crit rate. After that 100% u need haste for ST. Also Simulation proved that. BTW, Simulation and my testing both proved that in ST, 30 extra energy guaranteed a better ST than 5% bite talent. You can try it yourself. I don’t know how you get to this conclusion but numbers prove everything
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Which is why you go for Mastery next to increase all the damage your bleeds + finishers do.
I think when you sim that talent, it sims only 5% and not the upwards of 25% you can have
I dunno, we might actually be chillin’ right now in the sweet spot of not so strong we get nerfed, but not so weak we can’t put out good numbers. We might not be able to hang with the outlier fotm classes on every fight, but if you look at how consistent we are… it adds up. I did the most encounter damage overall across all of the boss kills in my raid on Tuesday and I was only top DPS on one fight… and I still have quite a bit of optimizing to do.
I kinda wish we brought something like Leader of the Pack for being Feral though, cause Mark of the Wild is generally covered by other druids in the group since Resto is so popular.
Inb4 I get replaced by a Windwalker for their buff. Lmao.
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Are you sure about this sim error you mentioned? Cuz my own dummy testing proves the same too. To be clear, I’m talking about the M+ build, where the only diff is these two talent points. Not some pure ST builds in which case 5% bite is for sure a must-have since you’ll get those extra 60 energy talents too.
For sure mastery is the most important second stat. but For me, my sims tell me haste is better for either ST or AOE. I got enough crit and my mastery is pretty high. I’m not saying that haste is the overall best stat. But it’s so after you get enough crit and mastery.
After all, feral is always short on energy on ST.
No I’m not. It’s more of a thinking out loud.
Im sure it may cover the 3: Rake Rip and Thrash.
But what about FF, FA, and Rip and Tear?
And are your sims strictly for ST? Or for an AoE situation. Because with predator, energy Regen becomes a non-issue for AoE in which 15-30% increase to Bite damage will win in practice
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FA does not count for TfB and neither does FF I think. Tear should, but I don’t know.
This data contradicts your statement. Our raid single target is fine - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/31#boss=2639&dataset=95&sample=7
Our damage in keys is also fine.
This just requires you to think outside the box a little bit. Do you really need Double Rake in Shadowmoon or Court? Do you really need Moment of Clarity during Spiteful week where you have infinite TF resets anyway?
Now, if your complaint was more about Feral gameplay quality going down in 10.0.5 then I would agree with you. Performance is definitely not an issue. Relative tuning of some talents (Bees and Bloodtalons specifically come to mind) is.
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I was only talking about ST in a M+ environment. Plus the pure ST build in raid is only just average and btw that’s pure ST build with 0 AOE.
In higher keys (above 23, 24…), if you check M+ data there’re significantly more monk, dh, rogue, enhance, and even wars for melee position.
And considering the complexity of feral rotation (snapshot dot monitoring, Blood Talon), i’d say the high-end dmg cap for feral should be higher to reward your effort.
BTW subtlely rogue only spams 2 buttons in aoe and has infinite energy compared to feral’s 5-6 buttons and definitely less energy compared to rogue.
And also, balance is performing much better and having a safer environment as a ranged in higher keys.
If feral as a melee is not doing more dmg, why would ppl ever need this spec in the high keys?
Because the player is good? I’m trying to figure out what you’re getting at here. Are you talking about pugging these kinds of keys? Doing that in NA seems suspect at best.
It’s certainly not a Feral issue since I’ve seen Psy pugging 24s no problem (without Mythic raid gear btw) and routinely ending his keys at top damage. Obviously one of the large difference makers there is him being in EU where (a) the median player skill is a lot higher and (b) the player population is also higher.
So like, blaming it on the spec when there’s mountains of evidence that it isn’t the problem is very weird.
What makes you think I’m blaming here? I timed a lot of 23s and 24s too. I’m not saying feral is bad.
But that’s not the point. One of the things, for example, is why should ppl take feral instead of balance in high keys?
What makes feral unreplaceable? If you’re just doing similar dmg to other melees, why not just take balance + other melees with more aoe stuns? And rogue is almost a must-have. Feral has almost no cc and can you imagine the only cc feral has takes 2 GCDs? And that’s not even a stun btw
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I guess we’re pretending Maim doesn’t exist?
Melee kick.
I think the PotP buff in .07 might actually be relevant in keys - which would be a big difference between Moonkin and Feral.
Like, I don’t think it would be absolutely horrible to have one more piece of utility of some kind. BUT it would need to be in the class tree which almost defeats the purpose anyway. We’re already too starved for points in all 3 levels of the Feral tree to have another exceptionally niche utility talent added.
Lmao you get maim in M+?
And I guess we’re pretending other melees don’t have melee kick ???
I think you still cannot understand my point
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On spiteful week?
Hell ya. And There’s not a damage producing talent I could switch too if I wanted to.
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Probably yes if you’re doing low keys, in higher keys, you don’t even have enough points for survival and team helper talents. In low keys, it doesn’t matter what you take whatsoever, so it’s not even worth discussing at all.
And Maim itself is a dmg reduction talent, so I don’t get your point.
Do you think feral has that many combo points and energy like rogue? Have you calculated how much AOE dmg you lost just for that maim?
Anyways, if you’re talking about keys lower than 20, we are def not on the same page…
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Not sure I’m sold on the four piece.
Sims for a lot, but so far it sure doesn’t seem to have been a noticeable bump.
Yes, you do. If you really need/want Maim it’s easy to grab. Most of the time it’s meaningless though, as AoE stops are more valuable and you already get both of those most of the time anyway.
Yes. Especially on Spiteful weeks. Infinite TF resets remember.
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