Feral Druid: Talent discussion

Feral Druid Talents

First things first, I just want to mention how thankful I am that the specialization has a lot of options in the tree, and that most nodes are at least good for something, and it's because of the promise shown that I even bother writing anything in the first place. Kudos for the work that has been done for Feral Druid this expansion. That being said, let's get into things.

Primal Claws

This talent, which competes directly with Tireless Energy in single target, and a variety of options in m+ has simply not been close to on par. Selecting this talent is almost as bad as choosing nothing at all, and that is simply due to the nature of our combo points. The combo points generated from Primal Claws has a high rate of overcapping, especially during berserk. Here are some common examples, with 40% crit chance, assuming 1 point of Primal Claws

In Berserk
5 combo points -> Cast Ferocious Bite, dropping to 2 combo points
2 combo points -> Shred with 80% crit chance, jumping to an average of 4.8 combo points before considering Primal Claws. Primal Claws brings this up to an average of 4.82 cps, as 80% of the time, the combo point generated from Primal Claws is wasted.

5 combo points → Cast Ferocious Bite, dropping to 2 combo points
2 combo points → Rake with 40% crit chance, jumping to an average of 3.4 cps.
Primal Claws brings this up to 3.5 cps
3.4 combo points → Brutal Slash with 40% crit chance, increased by number of targets, jumping to 5 combo points regardless of rake OR brutal slash critting. All combo points generated from both Primal Claws and Primal Fury wasted in this cycle.

Fun Experiment using previous scenario, with a 6th ‘bank’ combo point slot:

5 combo points → Cast Ferocious Bite, dropping to 2 combo points
2 combo points → Rake with 40% crit chance, jumping to an average of 3.4cps (3.5 with Primal Claws)
3.4 combo points → Brutal Slash with 40% crit chance, jumping to an average of 5.8 combo points (6 with Primal Claws)
5.8 combo points → Ferocious Bite, dropping to an average of 2.8 combo points
2.8 combo points → Shred, jumping to an average of 5.6 combo points and so on.

The idea here is that if Primal Claws procs in a berserk cycle, That extra combo point acts as a failsafe for if shred does not crit (or opens up more options for builders during this cooldown window, like using Brutal Slash for instance when you have 3 combo points instead of holding it to proc bloodtalons or until berserk is over. This would assist Tiger’s Tenacity some as well, as the extra combo point generated isn’t doomed to be wasted. In actuality, the same premise goes for Primal Claws, see the following example:

Cast Tiger’s Fury, gaining Tiger’s Tenacity Buff
5 combo points → Use Primal Wrath, dropping to 1 combo point
1 combo point → Thrash crit, going to 3 combo points
3 combo points → Brutal Slash crit, going to 5 combo points (now you’re not able to proc bloodtalons in time as you’ve reached 5 combo points!)

Primal Claws would have the same problem here, and if you combine both of them the odds are ever-increasing. Imagine a scenario in m+ where there are 8 targets, and 2 points of Primal Claws. (no Tiger’s Tenacity) The problem described above would occur about 35% of the time, and about 4% of the time 6 combo points would be generated in those 2 spells. A bit over 60% of the time you will end up at 4 combo points, where if you press rake, you have about a 52% chance to waste a combo point, neutering the gain from the talent.

All of this to essentially say that Primal Claws has an extremely high propensity of over-capping combo points as it is, ESPECIALLY during berserk, has some anti-synergy with Bloodtalons, Tiger’s Tenacity, anything that increases uptime of Berserk/Incarnation and Sudden Ambush, all while being a low percent chance to proc in the first place. Assuming absolutely BEST-CASE SCENARIO where somehow you avoid over-capping outside of Incarnation, you are looking at about 6 combo points a minute with both points and no other gains. Practically speaking you are looking at a lot less.

Okay Great, so how do you buff it?

First of all, I would make it so the talent gives you a 6th combo point slot. The primary benefit of doing this is so that it has some value during Berserk, though it will alleviate some of the over-capping elsewhere too, just not as much as you'd initially think.

Secondly, I would probably make it 1 point, that way you can buff its chance to proc without making the 2nd point much weaker than the 1st.

Lastly, you could increase the opportunities to proc this. For instance, adding finishers to the list, or Predator Swiftness spells.

Energy Talents ft. Relentless Predator + Cat Eye Curio

Another issue with current tree is that Cat Eye Curio is getting pushed out due to an abundance of easily accessible energy elsewhere. For instance, in single target 2 points into Tireless Energy is forced as there is simply nothing else to pick. Buffing Primal Claws and making it compete with Tireless Energy could certainly help, as mentioned above, so let's talk about Relentless Predator Instead

Relentless Predator

This talent is like, a bite-only version of Soul of the Forest, and honestly the effect it has on the spec is really strange. I do like that it's an option to increase single target damage in mythic plus, but it's just too much. It especially favors incarnation, considering it's practically impossible to cast ferocious bite on the lower energy bound with this talent. Said lower energy bound being 12 energy, and you generate 11 energy a second before haste. I feel like it needs a redesign. Perhaps it could be something like, ferocious bite has a chance to hit twice or something, I don't really know.

Lunar Inspiration

I fear this talent may have simply died in pve content. A sizable portion of the feral playerbase unfortuntely does not want to play this so it can be hard to recommend buffing it. I'd like to see it at least playable in single target, understanding that there is just not much room to use it in AoE situations between maintaining rakes, thrash and casting brutal slash to justify its use in those situations.

Unbridled Swarm

The 10.0.5 patch has unfortunately nerfed this talent that was mostly just played due to playstyle preferences. It would be nice for it to regain its niche from Shadowlands but at the very least could use a buff to regain its pre-10.0.5 power, much like Rip and Tear and Tear Open Wounds got buffs for the same reason. It's not a bad talent, and is probably playable, it's just cleanly a step back right now.

Ashamane's Guidance

This talent has seen no use since its inception. The incarnation side could just use a decent buff to its uptime and its probably fine for now. Though im not a big fan of how it bites into Sudden Ambush While 1 minute convoke was enjoyed in shadowlands, that was also an edition of convoke that was simply a lot more powerful. Buffing base convoke to bring it up to par with incarn might be enough to make this talent worth it. But I do want to mention the Niya soulbound trait Grove Invigoration as a consideration at some point in the future.

This is the druid I actually play, oops

Personally I’d be happy if this talent never saw the light of day again. If I wanted to cast spells, I’d just play a doom chicken. The further Feral gets away from ever having to owl weave again the better off the spec is imo lol.

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