90% of feral logs being in a good shape in their raids with low aggregate positioning means one thing, which I’ve already explained. And that thing is not consistent with what you’re claiming the aggregate data means. You’ve yet to even address this point.
I do understand but it has absolutely nothing to do with what I’ve been saying.
You don’t get to deflect every time someone says something you don’t agree with.
A single log can never fully explain why one player performs better than another in that encounter. In finding 30-40 logs across multiple people, it’s likely still differences will explain some of those logs. But with a small sample size for each raid group, we can’t possibly determine which ones are skill versus other things at play.
I said that 90% of logs showing Feral being fine. Nowhere did i say Feral was above average in raids.
Thus the law of averages. Out of 30-40 logs its bound to have multiple people hitting the same issues.
Just like every other spec.
Simply put: your average Feral player, the ones who actually enjoy Feral, play better than their peers. The only thing truly holding them back is balance. If every class was homogenized, your aggregated data would show Ferals at the top.
Otherwise why is it that every RANDOM log we pull from Feral has them beating all these other specs that are supposed to be towards the top?
Things like UH DK, a high end potential spec, has good players that truly make it shine. But due to its potential, it draws in more players. So higher representation with lower performances brings down that average. Which is why we see your AVERAGE Feral besting these “top” specs. The average Feral is better than the average DK.
But Ferals average output, due to its lower ceiling in comparison to other specs, will always show it to be lower than the average output of a higher ceiling spec.
Which is also a fault of trying to compare people to set points. Like yourself. Youre not among a group of equal skilled players. Most who are playing Feral are not. As can be seen with most random logs from guilds with Ferals in them.
Which brings us neatly full circle to the original point of this post to begin with. In order for a feral druid to perform in the raid, they need to play significantly better than their peers on other specs which are tuned better and/or bring better utility. If they attempt to move to another guild featuring peers that are closer to their skill level, they will fall behind in output. You can try to spin this however you want or use specific logs to try to claim that no raid is ever close in skill, but the conclusion is not invalid.
It’s funny. You and Grizzle spent the first few responses I made in this thread telling me I’m fine because I significantly outperform the other members of my guild. Yet trying to correct inaccuracies in how you are trying to use the analysis tools is me explaining why I suck?
As far as I’m aware, the only guilds that heavily care about your spec are RWF and HoF guilds. And even then it’s usually ‘pick the player over the class/spec’. One of the big reasons you see ferals so low is that there’s just not that many people that play it at a high level. Feral is super popular casually, but to play it well takes a lot of skill. It has a very high skill floor compared to most other classes.
When you looked at the graphs that OP posted, you see how massive the skill difference is between bottom and top players for feral. we have 3.2k parses, but a massively higher spread than any of the rogues, who have a spec below us in # of parses and a spec that has ~4 times our parses.
I’m sad feral is at the bottom of these dps charts, but honestly in SL we were like…top 3? It’s just a numbers game. SL feral had insane single target. This time we have really good AoE.
If you’re looking to see them in RWF then feral will need to be massively outdoing people on damage or get a spec-specific tool to make them mandatory. The former would likely be patched out, and the latter they are actively avoiding doing according to one of the recent interviews. Ferals are usually too close to rogues in terms of damage profiles, but they don’t bring cloak, they don’t bring cheat death, etc. Your absolute best case scenario for feral being in RWF is to have balance, guardian, and resto being absolute dumpster fires that can’t do their jobs. Then they’d probably bring a feral for mark of the wild.
Yep. Never claimed to be a “really good” feral player and never will. I’ve played on and off for a long time, but never consistently enough to care. That being said, feral still has a lot more hurdles to overcome this season, where things have to align quite perfectly to parse well consistently on anything other than LFR or Normal. Those at the top beating out the rest of their raid group are simply really, really good players who I would wager on doing better with a lot of other specs that are simpler to play.
I love the complexity of the feral rotation and have no qualms about it. But simply put, the spec is in a weird place where we do really well in cleave/M+ right now but are not as good as most other specs on equal footing in a single target fight.
Anyway, I really enjoyed reading the comments on this thread over the last few days, but everyone’s talking in circles at this point, so fight on
I encourage everyone to count the number of Ferals in the top 500 of all Druid specs. It’s 27, or 5% of all druid specs that are at the pinnacle of parsing.
In addition, you have 733 Balance Druids with at least a score of 500 or higher with only 69 Ferals in the same category. I don’t even want to get started on the other specs
Being the last spot in the 99th percentile is still better than the top spot in the 98th percentile.
Feral can still be last rank in its run, and still be performing better than another applicant. End of story. Its a player skill issue and not a spec issue.
Never once have i used “specific” logs. Theyve all been random and theyve all disproved what youre trying to spin.
Because you’re a incel who doesn’t understand the concept of teamwork?
Ferals are the worst dps in the game. Pointing out that you can “win” on details by outplaying everyone in your raid doesn’t make them a good spec. That POV is so rife with biases it’s worth studying for a dissertation on cognitive dissonance.
At this point, you guys trying to conflate the two is more entertainment than argument. But please, continue on about how all the logs and all the actual experts are wrong and your POV is the right one. Again.
I’ll give you this, you guys have no lack of confidence. I know if I presented a point and 1000 people disagreed with me, I’d at least question it myself. You guys never waiver, experts be damned.
