Are you guys really enjoying the “new” lol talent tree? specially frost
Or there are no dk players playing alfa right now? Bc theres no way our section in the alpha feedback doesnt have anyone complainging…
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I’m currently just waiting for the Unholy rework to come through, really excited for it. I think the frost tree is really good personally!
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Thanks for sharing biceps, it looked good to me from the calculator and glad you think it plays okay.
Please do let us know what you think about unholy once it hits, interested to see which one you think is going to perform better t1. Strongly considering sticking with dk into DF or swapping to war.
Are you sure?
I mean I get that the Frost tree is solid especially on the right side of the tree in all, but are you okay with the left side of the tree gated behind the most annoying passive (Unleashed Frenzy) of the tree?
Not to mention, I don’t think we barely get anything brand spanking new in the Frost tree other than Bonegrinder, Cold-Blooded Rage and Invigorating Freeze. Which are interesting to say the least.
Unholy is… Unholy. 
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I think it’s very boring personally and would like to see a lot less “x ability does more damage” or rw not being our only reliable source of damage in aoe and st scenarios.
I don’t understand why it’s so hard to give frost some tools to do st damage in particular. Spamming oblit just feels bad without km procs, and crit doesn’t make the damage scale up, so our stats are consistently awkward.
Yet any time we suggest designs to improve the flow of gameplay for it, we are painfully ignored, and frost is stuck as a simplified shadow (which should always be shadowfrost) of what it could be.
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but compared to warrior, shouldnt dk have more legendaries/corruption passif because they basically readded the base kit with few cool abilities
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Warriors have, outside of arms pvp, been dumpster all xpac. They could have probably used a shot in the arm for pve.
Prot was dead last or second to last for m+ S1/2, and not great in s3 getting overshadowed by bears ludicrous aoe damage and bloods insane 4pc.
They were fine(?) for raids. Certainly wouldn’t have seen them finish off mythic anduin in the race like we saw blood dk do though.
Warriors aren’t starting from where dks are in the rankings and I think that’s an important thing to note.
lmao maybe in pve but in pvp arm dominated the scene and dk was average. outside of abomination limbs dk is just a slow totem and even abo is not that good without its conduit and warrior has a solid kit to begin with compared to dk and it has been like this since legion rework. Majority of dk players play and are interested in the dps spec so that the class is good in tanking is irrelevant when the two most played specs are garbage compared to warrior
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I said outside of arms pvp? Not disagreeing with you arms was great for pvp all 3 seasons so far and looking okay for s4.
I’m talking pve for all 3 specs.
Is there anything in the frost tree that you would want to change?
From the looks of it, it seems a bit lackluster to spend 4 talent points to get the same healing as we have in retail and i was hoping for some old skills / talents / glyphed versions of skills to return 
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yes but pve is not all that is in wow and my point is warrior has at least 1 spec that excel at something while dk is average for the most part and if I take pvp as an example, our best utility and damage spell is not even from our base kit its a covenant ability. Its just to say that dk class tree should be filled with more meaningful abilities like a dot play style for unholy, og horne of winter, something that really change a spec and frost has it since it can play dw or 2h.
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One of the main painpoints with the general tree is Abom Limb being locked behind triple death strike node. Makes it so much more difficult to justify in PvE.
Spec tree just had a lot of good stuff brought back. Icy citadel, whelps and PvE chill streak are all things I’ve wanted to come back! I also think the tree makes a lot of sense how it’s structured. Left side is oblit-heavy single target focused. Right side is all about RW buffing. Middle is about pillar buffing. It makes a lot of sense.
I think FwF and absolute zero are a bit mediocre so far down, but it also makes sense from a PvP pov. Might be biased because first verision of unholy was bad, I just like frost tree how it is atm! Sure it can be better but it’s great already imo
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I know I’d like one thing: put ME in where Unleashed Frenzy is and replace ME’s position with Eradicating Blows that Frost Strike buffs Obliterate instead of other way around currently.
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So… After a day off because… reasons… LoL
When we all here say that dk isnt good, we are not talking about damage numbers, theres a lot of data logs showing that fdk is in a good place… but that isnt a sign that the class is good, sometimes i think you guys are not playing a VIDEO GAME, instead, looks like you all just analize numbers and data on your screen
this is a video game, its supposed to be fun, and right now, the current state of fdk isnt fun, maybe its good, but its not fun
i can say the same for demon hunter, pretty sure its good (actually ive no idea how the charts are, stopped look in legion) but the way the class works isnt, press demon blades till fill the bar, then start press chaos blade and repeat, with, sometimes, pressing blade dance or eyebeam
yeah yeah theres a min/max thing im not saying, but overrall… thats how the class plays, and its B O R I N G
Again, we are not talking about numbers, but how the class feel when you play it!
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With the below rework my two favorite FDK playstyles would exist! Pumped Frost Whelps is back!
Glacial Advance needs to be reworked and Talents shifted:
Stay with me…
Move Might of the frozen waste where Improved Killing machine is. Improved Killing Machine where Murderous Efficiency is. Murderous Efficiency where Glacial Advance is.
Change Glacial Advance to Glacial Assault: Consuming Killing Machine fires off glacial spikes from the ground that advance forward… and applying Razorice to enemies near their eruption point.
Now put Glacial Assault where Might of the Frozen Waste currently is.
This gates the current 4 set bonus behind a 2h talent which makes it less attractive to dw play, helps 2h compete, and solves the 2h rune forging issue. Basically bakes in the current 4 set.
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I like this idea but why not just make Murderous Efficiency replace Unleashed Frenzy while carrying out the rest of your suggestions?
I just hate Unleashed Frenzy. It lasts way too short, the pay off is not great (3% strength kekw), and forces you to use Frost Strike and only Frost Strike every 4 globals scaling with haste to make use of it.
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again, that doenst change anything… as i agree that would be a good change of talents, gameplay wise, nothing would change, the core rotation would still be the same, where you press obliterate all the way, sometimes HB when it procs, and if you dont have runes, you press frost strike
thats literally the entire frost gameplay right now, and possible, in DF, and its boring.
i just leveled a new dk, unholy only, never played, not into pets and dots… but im need to say… the class is really good to play, lots of stuff going on, you need to keep your dots up, use apoc with 4 COVID (no idea the name lol), DND can sometime spread the covid… the dst you apply is used to dump RP into AoE damage, when you dump rp, you get more runes (frost too, but im not sure wich one is better… the recovery speed or the rune regen…), death coil reduces cd, you got me, right? lot of things going on… after hit 60, ive changed back to frost just to feel the same ‘oh boy what a lame’ feeling…
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Fair enough. I dont mind playing around Unleashed Frenzy. Provides for a little bit of a skill cap play if the Str is scaled correctly. That being said, your idea is well taken.
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I think your assumption about FwF and Absolute Zero making sense from a pvp perspective are true about Abomb Limb being gated behind Death Strike as well. Do agree it feels bad having Limb gated behind 3 Death Strike points for pve 
. Edit disclaimer: I am not in alpha. Feels bad when just playing around with the talent trees.
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I wonder if they would be willing it up the tree if all damage was removed from it, so that it’s strictly utility. I’d prefer that tbh.
They definitely seem very mediocre from a pve perspective. Maybe AZ should just become a PvP talent and FwF moved higher in the tree. I have a hard time justifying AZ as a capstone talent for PvE.
I do wish you and other DKs that have a chance at grabbing Blizz’s attention would make more of a stink about the 2H vs DW implementation. I absolutely hate having weapon choice tied into build/playstyle. 2H just doesn’t have anything as good as BoS for a m+/aoe build and it also sucks being shoehorned into Obliteration all the time.
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