Feels bad to play Horde

We used to have Zandalari content until Warlords, I suspect that’s Metzen’s flavor. Can be cool if the Zandalari are destined to make appearances in the Undermine, Zul’Aman, and Zul’Drak. :crystal_ball::robot:

Would make an easy story for Sylvana’s redemption as her remaining family is on the alliance side. :memo::robot:

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Illidan quote from legion?
Don’t even get me started on legion, that was all Alliance.
Velen, Khadgar, Maiev, Illidan, Turalyon, Alleria

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sylvanas was and still is one of the most loved horde characters the character assassination that was her writting by denuser alienated so many people and so many refused to turn on her character one of the reasons they put the loyalist part in the story it was obvious that was put in last miniute because of the backlash.

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One of the major plotlines of legion was suramar.
As it turned out, it was all set up for the horde getting a new race :stuck_out_tongue:

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yes but it was after illidan blew up the allies’ cute little crystal angel.

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The best part of the horde character and stories, died with Saurfang.

“We will never be slaves” -hellscream
“We don’t get to hide” - Saurfang
“I speak for the horde” vol’jin

These epic moments, these are the real horde stories that made them the most popular faction. Sadly those characters are dead and gone and the writers seem interesting in making the horde the bad guys, probably because they don’t know what to do with them.

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I’m fine with Blizzard not giving the Horde much attention story-wise, since they seem to only know how to give Horde characters attention by turning them into Saturday morning cartoon villains…

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Yeah, I assumed there’s no longer a group of loyalists since the destruction of Undercity and discovered her goal in Shadowlands. Although it would be fun to see crazed Forsaken and Leper Gnomes calling themselves champions to the banshee queen-- almost got that with the Gilneas questline. :memo::robot:

I play both. And it definitely would be nice if there were some changes based on the faction you were. Alliance and Horde don’t need to be enemies for them to approach a situation differently or get a different reaction out of somebody. Even seemingly little things can make a lot of difference.

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See, I’ve seen it.

and I think a big problem is that there is ppl who never want characters to grow or change.

They just want them to be never changing incarnates of an ideal or some junk and its honestly silly and not realistic at all.

That’s the hope. Kinda worried it’ll be void corrupted as Xal’atath seems to be aligned to all of the enemies underground. Curious if we’ll get the Squidlings from Dnd. :8ball::robot:

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The Horde’s original identity, Vanilla through most of MoP, used to be that of aggressors. Not in a bad sense! In a sense that the Horde took what it wanted, through force of might first and foremost. Think Star Trek’s Klingons. Within that framework, you had a spectrum from honorable warriors like Orcs or Taurens, to duplicitous schemers like Forsaken or Blood Elves.

From the finale of MoP onward, that aspect of the Horde got sanded off. For all intents and purposes, in terms for identity, we’re all Alliance now. We deal in Alliance values, like diplomacy, compromise and understanding. Reasons? Pick your poison:

  • Faction values mixing and diluting over time: Lots of original Alliance players moved to Horde over time due to PvP server imbalance and raiding/M+ racials. This diluted the perhaps more agressive inclinations of the original Horde player base.
  • New developers prefer different stories: There was a change of guard for developers at Blizzard over time, and the newer developers have less old school Us vs. Them sensibilities. Their tastes align more with Final Fantasy than Warhammer 40k type storylines, so to speak.
  • Less work to develop ONE viewpoint: It is much easier to develop one overall unified point of view story arc in patches and expansions, rather than two different arcs running in parallel. Remember how in past expansions each faction got their own quests and perspective?

The Horde’s original brand is gone. Thrall was supposed to be an outlier in Orc and Horde culture, but through in-game and out-of-game characterization drift now its been established as the norm. We’re all Alliance in terms of values, purposes and actions now. That’s why you do not see “Horde” stories anymore.

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Speaking of, my kingdom for race to matter more in this game from a RP perspective. Like nothing drastic just some acknowledgment other than sometimes being referred to as “Vulpera” or whatever.

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Character growth is one thing.

Ruining a character is another.

A character can grow and change without destroying the core of what they are. Garrosh could have grown into a man whom saw value in other races, and even accepted the Alliance’s existence as beneficial to the Horde, without losing that core of wanting what was best for his people, and surpassing his father’s legacy.

Growth and change at the expense of a character’s core is bad story-telling. That said, so few characters have a strong identifying core to begin with.

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Respectfully disagree. I think the early horde from classic were that of survivors. They entered an alliance of convivence with the Forsaken. They fled eastern kingdoms. The Orcs were on the run, the Trolls were on the run. The Tauren were nearly wiped out. They fled their oppressors in eastern kingdoms to find what? Centars and Kaldorei in Kalimdoor.

Classic → MOP horde for me was that of survival, overcoming adversity, stronger together. If anything I always viewed the Alliance as the Villain’s of classic.

some examples:
Medhv opened the dark portal.
Garados oppression of the elves.
Oppression of the Orcs (see Old Hillsbrad dungeon for in game reference)
Night Elves attacking Sindorei after the sunwell was destroyed (Eversong Woods Quests)
Daelin Proudmore’s assault on the horde Jania made an alliance with.

What really can you point to that shows anything villainous that thrall’s horde done. Thrall would have never allowed something morally reprehensible. Sure there are some bad actors like Hellscream but he was reprimanded by Thrall and had his redemption.

“From my point of view the Jedi are evil” :smiley:

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No sarcasm intended- please give an example of an epic storyline.

I see Horde players saying they do not want to be’ goody two shoes ’ like Ally, and also do not want to be ‘villain batted’. This cuts out a lot of stories right there.

What would Horde players actually like to see?? ( And with the faction ‘truce’ it does not seem like attacking Ally is in the cards)

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Saurfangs rebellion was totally epic and really felt like the epic horde moments of old.

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Most of the world was attempting to survive/build/rebuild in the aftermath of the Third War. One might argue the Horde’s races were in a more precarious position and I’d agree, but struggling to survive was hardly a Horde-exclusive identity.

I’d argue the difference between the Horde and Alliance was one of pragmatism vs. morality. They faced many of the same issues, but how they approached it is what identified them.

The Alliance embraced morality. There is a clear, definitive right and wrong that separates good people from evil people. A thief is a thief and regardless of their intentions, their actions are wrong.

The Horde embraced pragmatism. What is right is doing what is necessary to survive. A thief isn’t necessarily wrong: the greater evil by far would be to let your family starve, rather than secure what they need to live.

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Fake hugs to the Horde. :sleepy:

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Respectfully I don’t think its fair to say that Alliance embraced morality.

Look at Garados look at Old Hillsbrad look at Daelin Proudmore just to name a few examples.

If anything Thrall was the most moral character we ever seen (until Anduin came along)
There are good and bad on both sides.

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