Big nerf to Arms in PvP especially. Hopefully they swing back and adjust it somehow, they also further nerfed the pvp talent storm of destruction to not provide anymore CD reduction on top of anger management being worse.
4 Likes
on Blademasters Torment
Honestly it seems kinda bad now? I might take another talent outright. It had a whole bunch of synergy even for colossus.
It was used as a root breaker in pvp, a single target dps increase with Hurricane on live and other stuff. I liked the rotation break for a few seconds while spinning also.
Now it just looks like a generic aoe damage talent. Warlords torment being the single target damage increase pick. Lame choice and I don’t even know why id want it.
There were choices like
“I want to root break but I’m not sure if I want to blow avatar now”
or “I want to use avatar here but it also means I won’t have my root break after”
Can we get something else?
2 Likes
If it properly combined duration like most of those talents, up to 84s of uninterrupted Sweeping Strikes is a pretty compelling option.
I do think it’s odd that it’s a strictly multitarget option without even minor single target value for bosses, but there’s a lot of potential - especially for Colossal Might stacks.
I finally installed the beta so I can just poke around with the Warrior tree, and I am just so frustrated already.
I play SMF, always have and always will. And in general, I enjoy the Fury tree as it is.
First off, I was happy seeing the removal of Annihilator (and Storm of Swords with it). It never scaled well, and it only useful up until the point people had better gear, then it was all but abandoned by players not dumb enough to hold onto it since it was on the SMF side of the board.
BUT, I also was using Odyn’s Fury, and now suddenly that is on the far opposite side of the board, making it impossible for me to take unless I want to put points into Whirlwind talents, or Execute instead of focusing on BT/RB/Rampage, which it seems they want for Mountain Thane anyway.
Then I figure whatever, I will try to figure it out and just do Bladestorm or Ravager (which I don’t like), so I go to open my little lootbox for equipment to test stuff on and after I’ve chosen my SMF spec, it spawns THREE 2-handed weapons, and ONE 1-handed weapon. Is this some kind of joke?
Even in TESTING they don’t give SMF 2 weapons to play with, but give them THREE 2-handed weapons? Not even actual TG Fury Warriors can use THREE 2-handed weapons.
Put Odyn’s Fury back on the left side, put Bladestorm/Ravager back on the right where it was. There was no reason to move the bottom Fury talents around, just get rid of Annihilator/Storm of Swords.
Whoever the Warrior Devs are, you just frustrate me so much. Just do away with SMF and make it a transmog at this point.
EDITED - Took out the stuff about wanting Thunder Clap so Archimtiros can stop thinking this entire post is about Thunder Clap when it had almost nothing to do with it).
Do you have any thought on Ravager being less attractive than ever? Because it seems that way to me, esp as a pvp war.
Second Bladestorm vs Ravager seemed like more of a choice. Now it’s “the only Bladestorm” vs Ravager.
Easy enough to follow me here?
That’s the only root break for Arms Colossus now. Not to mention Slayer wasn’t picking Ravager anyway. It’s making Ravager less attractive than ever now that its competing with the ONLY Bladestorm.
I swapped out Ravager for actual Bladestorm right after this dropped since I lost my mini one. Possible unintended consequence?
1 Like
Read over your talents again - everything that applies to Whirlwind also applies to Thunder Clap.
Thane also buffs Execute in all the same ways it buffs Raging Blow, so those talents are not a waste.
PvP is not my area of expertise, so no I don’t have any particular thoughts or care about it. Perhaps their intent was to reduce the potential for having two breaks, or to limit you from having a break and damage.
My feedback regarding Fury:
This tier set aims to accomplish the strange obsession of wanting us to use both raging blow and bloodthirst, but seems to fall short.
Raging blow is currently a rotational filler, so raging blow resetting its own cooldown will not happen as often, which causes the 4 piece to feel like it almost accomplishes nothing.
Additionally, I believe that the number on the 2 set might be a bit low. The damage amp applied to rampage via the tier set is only half as effective as one stack of slaughtering strikes, which we can get three stacks of with one global if Onslaught with tenderize is talented. While this is in line with the generally low tuning of most other tier sets, this combined with the 4 set essentially not doing anything for us most of the time during our rotation feels like we have a tier set that accomplishes next to nothing.
We were quick to remove Annihilator, but why is the same not being applied to single minded fury? It is a strict downgrade from Titans Grip, and everyone that plays it is playing it strictly for the one hand fantasy/appearance. That’s totally fine, but that one talent is clogging the talent tree, especially with its awkward positioning. Fury should be able to transmog one handers over their weapons, or single minded fury should be a baseline passive that comes in to effect when a warrior duel wields two one handed weapons.
Mountain thane feels very good to play. Thunder blast feels very satisfying to press, but thunder clap being a baseline ability for Fury would greatly assist us in the class side of our talent tree. Monks are able to take whatever they want with very little actual throughput, I feel the same logic should be applied to our tree, and making thunder clap baseline would greatly help with that.
I’ve only tried slayer briefly, but wasn’t a fan as bladestorm conflicts with the main reason I play fury – to press a lot of buttons really quick. However, bladestorm speed being increased by slayer talents greatly improves the feel of including a bladestorm into your rotation, so no complaints from me there either.
The above feedback regarding hero talents is not factoring in the obvious bugs that others have already posted about, and I’ve submitted bug reports on in game as well.
The buffs to reckless abandon are quite nice, and that odyn’s fury damage buff is awesome. Reckless abandon and OF feels great to play in practice, but is currently bugged so holding judgement until its fixed.
Anger management largely feels the same to play despite the nerfs which is nice. However, CDs definitely feel noticeably longer to come back compared to before, and it presents a bit of a strange dilemna. If my CDs are generally weaker in anger management but they’re up more often, then I would want those CDs to be up significantly more often compared to reckless abandon. As it currently stands, the gap between CDs in reckless abandon and anger management doesn’t feel significant, leaning me to feel a bit more inclined to play reckless abandon. I fear that most other players will feel the same way and feel like they have no choice but to just stick with reckless abandon since the CD reduction isn’t as worth it as it used to be. For the sake of players who prefer the high CD uptime, I think the anger management changes could be rolled back, at least a bit, if not entirely.
Sorry for wall of text, hope my feedback was somewhat helpful.
3 Likes
One small thing, idk if it’s been fixed yet, haven’t been on since patch, but using ravager on anywhere that’s elevated (The ships in dawnbreaker, etc) Ravager just… disappears. It doesn’t do anything, it just straight up vanishes. Sometimes appearing after you kill/wipe to the boss/mobs you’ll just see ur ravager spinning on nothing.
gimme at least your thoughts on ravager in general
I know u asked archim, but I figure, i use ravager near exclusively until slayer gets fixed, I find Ravager is great for m+, you get decent rage generation, and you can spend that rage while still doing great cleave damage with ravager. The only things that bug me are the bugs related to ravager (it not chasing after enemies, disappearing at points of elevation) but in all, while it does less damage over a longer period of time, it still feels better for dps in big pulls, just purely because you can use other skills while it’s active.
Ravager is great. It’s been a mainstay in Fury builds for almost all of DF, and works very well for Thane even without Anger Management in ST.
For Arms, it provides a a lot of extra rage generation, which can be helpful if not strictly necessary, but what I really like is that it presents new options - if we ever find ourselves in a Sylvanas-like situation where Execute isn’t particularly relevant, you can skip talents like Critical Thinking and Juggernaut in favor of Ravager instead. Unhinged also has major synergy with Colossus, since it generates extra Colossal Might stacks.
Fury/Arms Feedback for 06/18/2024 beta build
Arms
Thanks for implementing Reap the Storm proccing off Cleave. Much appreciated.
The Blademaster’s Torment change is somewhat concerning. First of all, I was never a huge fan of the previous iteration, honestly I don’t really mind seeing it go. But this new iteration poses some problems. For one, when playing this talent, its now possible to have a continuous 84 seconds of Sweeping Strikes, which is 6 seconds shy of effectively being a passive effect with extra steps (or it would be if using Avatar didn’t put Sweeping Strikes on cd, which is clearly unintended). The Cleave portion of this change has caught some flak, because it seems to go back on some of your stated goals for opening up room in the rotation for other abilities.
My biggest gripe with this talent personally is that it has absolutely no value whatsoever in ST, which its predecessor atleast did to some extent. Particularly for a capstone like this, it probably shouldn’t be completely worthless in ST. Some have suggested that Sweeping Strikes should grant Avatar. While this would address this issue, it would do so by turning Sweeping into a ST cooldown, which I would really hate to see. Overall, this talent kind of just doesn’t really seem to work in practice.
I’m not sure what potential solutions are. I’d love for it to just be a way to grant passive Sweeping, since it seems to already kind of be doing that, but in practice I’m not sure this would work when talents like Improved SS and Collateral Damage exist and rely on Sweeping Strikes being a buff to work. And that wouldn’t really solve the ST issue. Another suggestion I’ve seen is making SS hit a third target during Avatar, but I’m not a fan of this, because it threatens a return to the convoluted rotational priority issues with differing target counts that came with much of Dragonflight’s design. Another suggestion is that SS should make abilities hit twice, including on the primary target. Again, this potentially makes Sweep a ST cd, which I definitely don’t want to see.
There’s also a bug with Blademaster’s Torment causing Avatar to overwrite your current Sweeping Strikes instead of extending it. Hopefully not intended, because it would be extremely frustrating if so.
Warlord’s Torment states that “The additional Rage generation of this Recklessness cast is reduced to 25%.” This isn’t actually true, its 25% less rage from autos, but rage from abilities still seem to be getting doubled. I want to assume that 25% rage number was created with re-adding Colossus Smash to Warlord’s torment in mind, as this talent was woefully underpowered and basically completely unusable after removing CS from it. I’m not sure why this talent would get nerfed when it was already in such a miserable state unless the intent was to add CS back. So, hopefully that is the plan and it just didn’t happen this build for whatever reason.
If that is the case, short of trying other ideas for Blademaster’s Torment, I wouldn’t necessarily mind Warlord’s Torment (with CS) being the only node under Avatar and just removing Blademaster’s Torment given its myriad potential issues. Though, to be clear, I don’t mind if you keep trying.
Fury
WOOO. Odyn’s Fury is finally buffed. We’ve been waiting for this one for a long time. Unfortunately, I do have some concerns with this change, not regarding the damage, but what this change means for enrage uptime. Since the changes to Anger Management and Unbridled Ferocity (I gave my feedback on these changes in an earlier post), there was a fear of what those changes would mean for enrage uptime. Fortunately, moving Deft Experience as the gateway node to Onslaught sort of resolved these concerns thanks to the frequency of Bloodthirst use and in combination with Tenderize making Onslaught also proc Enrage.
With Odyn’s Fury being securely the best option in AOE now, and us having to give up Deft Experience in order to take Critical Thinking and thus path to OF, we’ve now lost a lot of the enrage uptime security we had. Titanic Rage tries to make up for this to some extent, but it may not be enough on its own. Titanic Rage is not necessarily locked in and in a world where we play Dancing Blades, this problem persists without any clear solution. I’ve made the suggestion in the past that Fresh Meat should be merged into Improved Bloodthirst and I think this might help alleviate this issue somewhat, both by granting a means to gurantee Enrages and by generally increasing Bloodthirst’s chance to proc Enrage.
Finally, in light of all the changes Fury has received throughout the alpha/beta development cycle, Critical Thinking has become an increasingly weak node due to its focus on buffing Raging Blow, which has fallen out of favor as a priority rotational button. I’d like to maybe hit two birds with one stone here. Given the talents name of Critical Thinking, maybe this talent can be reworked to restore the old interaction of Bloodthirst crits proccing Enrage, possibly in addition to some other effect, to solve a few problems at once.
In addition to the above, there are a number of frustrations I’ve had with Titan’s Torment in combination with Odyn’s Fury that I hope can be addressed. When playing with Titan’s Torment, using Odyn’s Fury and Avatar shortly after one another munches a portion of the Odyn’s Fury dot applied to enemy targets causing some damage to be lost. This is pretty standard for pandemic style effects and makes sense for dots like Rend or Deep wounds which you’re able to maintain with a 100% uptime, but is an incredibly frustrating interaction on cooldown abilities. The result is that players either delay Odyn’s Fury or Avatar in order to avoid this issue and while this means you can technically play around it, its frustrating, because if you’re unaware of this interaction, which I imagine the vast majority of warriors are, they would be making this mistake completely unknowingly and justifiably as it would be silly to assume that this is the default functionality.
Unfortunately, this problem is two-fold, because a similar problem occurs when talenting into Dancing Blades under Odyn’s Fury, where using Avatar and OF in quick succession causes the Dancing Blades buff on players to pandemic and munch a portion of the buff’s duration instead of extending it. Again, a highly frustrating and unintuitive interaction for anything that isn’t a 100% uptime dot. I’d really like to see both these issues addressed before we return to a world where we regularly play Titan’s Torment.
Thanks for making the change to Reckless Abandon thats been suggested by myself and a few other warriors. Unfortunately, it seems to be bugged right now and instead of Rampage granting Crushing Blow & Bloodbath, Recklessness is proccing this talent, making it significantly less frequent than intended. I look forward to playing around with this a bit more once this bug gets fixed.
This is unrelated to this current build, but after playing with the new changes to Anger Management from last week’s build. I share a lot of the frustrations that have been expressed here regarding the alignment of ability cooldowns post AM nerf. Ability cooldowns seem to just be all over the place and without an annoying amount of holding cooldowns to force alignment, its incredibly frustating to put a satisfying cooldown window together. The alternative of just sending everything on cd and just accepting that things will never align, or praying that they eventually do, is not a reality I want to endure. But holding cooldowns to this extent entirely defeats the point of Anger Management. I started noticing these alignment issues prior to the previous nerf to AM and Unbridled Ferocity, and they were frustrating before, but post-nerf, this hallmark talent is becoming increasingly unfun. With UF nerfed, I’m not sure reverting the AM change would even resolve the issue, but its hard to know without actually playing with it. Once again, I have to ask, probably in vain, that AM revert to its now very old state of applying to all our offensive CDs, because frankly its fun, and I’m tired of having this alignment problem always ready to rear its ugly head whenever we have to mess with the rage economy in any capacity.
3 Likes
Take Deft Experience instead of Swift Strikes when using Odyn’s Fury (it’ll still path to Reck & Ravager talents). Seems unintuitive to lose the extra rage generation, but Deft is more important right now.
3 Likes
Yea, I know, forgot to mention that being the alternative. But mostly im just soapboxing about critical thinking frustrations and the downside of not having Onslaught all the time.
I agree, Critical Thinking feels like the weakpoint here. It actualy is a bit better after the RA buff (bugs not withstanding), though it does kind of feel like maybe it should be another rage/enrage talent in line with the other two.
On the other hand, having three talents do basically the same thing would also be kind of odd, so idk. At least for the time being though, Deft does some heavy lifting, so I would not recommend leaving home without it!
1 Like
Yea, when I was writing the bloodthirst crit enrage suggestion or thinking of another enrage alternative, this was kind of the thought in my mind. Its partly why I re-iterated the fresh meat change. I think it might be best to address Enrage issues elsewhere in the tree (Not through Powerful Enrage tho, please) and redo those gateway nodes, but at this point that would be like the 4th time they’ve reworked some or all of those nodes, haha.
It may buff Whirlwind, but again, why does Odyn’s Fury have to suddenly be on the opposite side of the board, meaning I cannot play how I did in Dragonflight? I don’t want Whirlwind or Ravager, I want Odyn’s Fury. And I don’t want to spec into Whirlwind or Execute. I want to play this character as I have been playing it (just switching WW with TC), but also adding the Hero Talents.
Its position on the board hasn’t any interference with your ability to talent it and play the same way, since you’re going through that cluster anyway.
Then take the RB talents, which also path into Critical Thinking and Odyn’s Fury.
Ok, but speccing into Whirlwind helps the Thunder Clap that you say you want to play with. You have 30 talent points to spend, so you need to put them into something. You also can’t cleave your abilities without Whirlwind talents (affecting Thunder Clap), which is a pretty fundamental part of how Fury plays.
3 Likes
This last round of changes was pretty devastating for warrior PVPers.
Colossus went form getting to press Demolish consistently, to now being starved for stacks. While I don’t think it should have insane uptime I do think in its current state you don’t get to press it enough.
Having a root\cc break that gave immunity made up for the fact Warrior tends to be kited and CC lot of the time, now that just got worse with the Blademaster’s Torment changes. I imagine this will be dropped from a PVP standpoint.
I’m not sure I understand the point of giving Master and Commander healing reduction, you are already using unhinged since there is no other option in PVP. Why reduce the snare component?
Why is hamstring on a global cooldown if were losing quite a bit of cc immunity? Bladestorm is a LONG cd now. Colossus went from a satisfying spec to LONG cooldowns you don’t get to press.
I currently don’t really understand the design of warrior in PVP. Can Slam not have Rend added to it rather than having Rend, and a slam you basically never use?
Warrior Bleeds, we have so many. Is the design to be an outlast spec where bleeds take over, or are we a big hit spec where you dish a lot of burst? Don’t seem to fulfill either of those slots.
I was pretty excited for War Within, and while I expected changes the latest round leaves a lot o be desired.
2 Likes