Feedback: Templar Paladin in The War Within

Classes Paladin
143

All around great feedback again

One thing however…

Why?
It makes Sacrifice an actual external DR (even if small), I use it all the time on my tank or healer in M+.

I like both of the nodes and Unrelenting charger is very nice too.
But the biggest advantage of Unrelenting charger is allowing us to not take Seasoned Warhorse in the class tree and pick something else in the first part.

I feel this is an actual interesting choice node.

This need to be emphasized.
Idk that they can realistically do that with throughput nodes though.
Every time damage is involved it rarely end ups being balanced.
Utility/QoL node however are where choices nodes can shine and is less of a headache for them.

3 Likes
144

Am I misunderstanding you here perhaps or just the tooltip for Bonds of Fellowship in general?

My understanding of the description was that Blessing of Sacrifice will still have us take the damage we normally would be taking from our ally after we press it, but then that amount is now reduced by 20% on us.

This is a good point and one I didn’t catch. Funny enough I did somehow catch something similar with Templar’s Watch and Seething Flames. We might be able to drop the talent in Seething Flames for picking up Templar’s Watch.

But overall, I still would say that Unrelenting Charger needs more Templar flavor. I like my most recent idea of triggering an Emancipate on ourselves and all other allies within our Aura on top of still increasing the movement speed by an additional 30% in the first 3 secs.

3 Likes
145

tuning usually hits the nail on the head regarding this stuff. but frnakly the only choice node that i see as a actual clear cut choice is the judgement and how node. with judgement being the obvious stronger option

the wake and dt choice node however are both strong in different ways. wake of ashes being buffed by 30% means more burst damage with es thus amplifying our ability to delete priority targets or shields like fyrakk/razegeth.

while dt node increases our consistent damage in our burst window. with having 3 judgements thrown or from DR effectively get buffed by sizeable amounts. each one effectively being dt in terms of damage. this is good for overal and more healthy damage for bosses like volcoross or sarketh. overal this is a very good choice node with a a ctual choice cemented on what encounter you are facing.

nah you wouldnt drop more free damage because its on the hero tree. having more things that amplify our on demand nuke button will always be good in all content. if talent trees dont change (we have very good reason to believe they will change for alot of specs including ret) then i dont see any change in the overal build.

maybe exchanging es for fr for pve to buff lights hammer

1 Like
146

Right. Lets take it in steps.

Sacrifice as it is right now, isn’t a DR.
It merely transfer the damage from 1 person to us.
No damage was reduced with it, we’re essentially sharing our health pool to take the damage.

With this talent it means that if, for example, 100k is prevented on our target, we would only get hit for 80k through the transfer.

It’s a SMALL DR but a DR nonetheless (6%).

I’m looking at it as a whole for both people affected by it.
It lessen the total damage taken where as it didn’t previously.

2 Likes
147

It also means we might finally be able to Sac a Blood Death Knight without having to worry about getting blown up too.

Well, not worry as much I guess.

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148

You make a fair point. I think largely my problem stems with my expectations being in a vastly different direction, but reading the comments here reminds me that I can’t judge the tree poorly because I wanted something else, I need to judge it based on what it is. A lot of people seem happy with the general feel of it, with a few nitpicks here and there on specific nodes, so I will let the more un-biased and analytical commenters like you, Christtel, Jesir, and Luthorion handle this (since you’ve all made really good points that I hadn’t even thought of or have been too out of the loop to consider). Though I’ve seen a lot of Ret players but not a lot of Prot :') Where my prot homies at???

3 Likes
149

Feedback for the Unrelenting Charger talent: Please add a root/snare immunity to this for PvP rets. Something like “for the first 3 seconds of divine steed you are also immune to slows/roots”.

Having to use freedom in combination with divine steed in PvP is very annoying as we basically lose both mobility buttons every time we want to steed since people just use a slow or root as soon as we pop steed. It’s also very annoying to use both, only for freedom to immediately get purged and then you are slowed on steed instantly. It would be nice to have steed be immune to slows/roots for the first 3 seconds especially with how many passive slows are in the game now.

This can be done through honor talents instead as well. Can replace Spreading the Word or Ultimate Retribution (both rarely used if ever) with a talent that improves steed in pvp a bit. Really should happen though.

4 Likes
150

Feedback for the Light’s Deliverance talent: What happens when you hit 50 stacks but wake is on CD for say 10 seconds still so you can’t get back to Hammer of Light right away? Do we just end up wasting stacks in this scenario? Or is something in place to ensure we will rarely hit 50 stacks while Wake of Ashes is on CD?

I love this talent personally I think back to back Hammer of Lights will feel so good assuming it’s tuned to do big damage, especially with the second being free. This is my only concern with it, I don’t think wasting stacks will ever feel good unless you just generate so many of them that it doesn’t matter much.

2 Likes
151

There seems to be a disconnect in the tree structure; multiple talents key off of Empyrean Hammers (i.e. Empyrean Hammer, Endless Wrath, and Sanctification) despite not actually being linked to the hero talent that gives you Empyrean Hammers (Shake the Heavens).

152

Im a total noob at tanking and at first glance prot warrior guardian druid ans vdh feel a lot tankier with less to manage than prot pala. I an sure prot pala excels with experience and overall skill due to their long array of strong defensives but for a total noob like me Id rather play prot warr and just spam ip revenge tc avatar

1 Like
153

Hammer of Light gives you Empyrean Hammers too though, that is why a lot of them are linked to it and stem from it. Hammerfall and Shake the heavens will give you the most it seems, and those are linked to Hammer of Light as it goes down the middle. Shake is linked directly and Hammerfall is linked to shake. Empyrean Hammer talent is linked directly to Hammer of Light as well.

I assume thats why it is structured that way, because the first ability in our tree gives us Empyrean Hammers and everything stems from that.

1 Like
154

Reposting this here cuz the other one wasn’t as “official.”

I honestly love what I’m seeing for most of Templar Paladin in how it looks like it’ll play (from a Ret perspective). A new active ability that replaces WoA after using it reduces bloat so that’s a plus. Also a new damage holy power spender is EXACTLY what I wanted on Ret. Although in terms of aesthetic I think I’d prefer a sword emphasis over even MORE hammers, but I digress. There are a few gripes/suggestions on my end though:

1.) That capstone…I think I speak for every Ret Pally when I say that we do NOT want another Divine Arbiter. Having to wait for 50 hammers to hit enemies and then we can use the new ability twice in a row. Just sounds like the 25 stacks of Divine Arbiter but it does something different. That’s pretty boring and sounds underwhelming from a gameplay perspective (just like Divine Arbiter). Maybe something that uses Avenging Wrath? The other 2 Pally hero specs use avenging wrath in the capstone, Templar could use it for its capstone also.

2.) Unrelenting Charger seems redundant. We have multiple talents that affect our divine steed in the normal tree. What might be cool for Templar is to have that talent option be something that provides immediate movement, like a dash? It could be like Fel Rush but with a longer cooldown, and it would replace Divine Steed. Then you can choose between Divine Steed or Light Dash :tm: depending on your build/situation.

Overall excited, but could use some work.

2 Likes
155

Thanks for resharing your feedback here as well!

That other forum thread was from me and I immediately jumped the gun when I saw these 8 new Hero Talent trees and created it before Blizzard gave us this official spot for Templar feedback…

A lot of your points have also been echoed in this thread as well!

Completely agree and now I’m just eager to get my hands on it! This was a really strong first Hero Talent Mockup for Templar and come to think of it, no one has given Blizzard credit yet for choosing to not include ANY Consecration focused talents! It’s due.

Absolutely!
I’m insanely curious to what, if anything Blizzard will do here.
Please strongly consider reskinning the Templar theme to Swords! :crossed_swords:

This thread mostly has had the same overall feeling towards Templars and a Sword-focused class fantasy. Currently this thread has only had a total of 38 unique users though, so it’s hard to extrapolate the accuracy of this viewpoint to the overall larger Paladin playerbase.

The only small thing I can add here is the Youtuber Lvladen’s channel. I love watching his channel and left a comment about Templar being Sword focused rather than Hammer focused. He agreed too! That isn’t worth much at all on its own, but its at least another marker that this class fantasy has been aimed at the wrong overall theme?

I also agree here. The gameplay design element of us gaining a free proc of Light’s Guidance is awesome and sounds fun. It’s just the stacking element of it that’s not an appealing way to get there. Especially for PvP Rets, this would be our 3rd stacking buff of this nature alongside Divine Arbiter and Aura of Reckoning (PvP Talent).

Also agree here.

I think that is maybe what they are trying to go for by having this talent grant an extra 30% movement speed in the first 3 secs of its duration. I would have to test this to see how it feels because at first, it doesn’t seem like it will land in-game.

My personal best “idea-solution” for this talent is still having Unrelenting Charger proc a free Emancipate on ourselves and all other allies in our aura on use. This would still also be going alongside that 30% initial increase to its speed.

  1. The idea here is that Divine Steed is often lackluster on its own. We really have to sync it up with Blessing of Freedom to get the value from it in the majority of situations. But the addition of Emancipate here is primarily first, to help develop and flesh out the Templar class fantasy most importantly! We stop at nothing after all right?

  2. Behind this next is the gameplay improvement of feeling like Divine Steed can be pressed without having to burn a Blessing of Freedom with it.

  3. Lastly, this freeing of snares with Emancipate is to have us hopefully “feel” the value out of that 30% boost to its movement speed in the first 3 secs. It’s great to have that speed boost, but if we are already slowed and do not have a freedom ready, its not going to be felt at all. Nothing about that sounds very 'heroic" to me.

Regardless, anything to beef up Unrelenting Steed that works will be beloved!

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156

Nah man. The two greatest paladins, Turalyon and Uther used hammers.

Hammers all day long. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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157

You know, you’re right. Those two great Paladins did.

But what about the great Templars? :thinking: :sweat_smile:

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158

Uther is technically a templar in game, not to mention its not just those two, theres also maraad who popularized the hammer of the naruu

1 Like
159

Here is something else kind of funny on this subject debate.

Go to Wowpedia and find Templar. Literally the 2 images they use there off to the right side are Paladins both using Swords!

160

it also says the majority of templars are priests that use staffs. your point?

161

On Wowpedia? I see the reference to Templars being a type of Paladin and Priest combatant but I see no reference to them using staffs in particular.

Also, do you have a reference to show an example of Uther being labeled a Templar by title or description? I can’t seem to find one so far after a brief look.

162

the description of tmeplar in this game according to the wowpedia is so very unfleshed out and vague that the only key reference on being a templar is

Templar (sometimes pluralized as templars )[[2]]) are a type of [paladin] and [priest]combatants. They are not only the most skilled in battle, but also the most righteous in their demeanor. Strength of arms and purity of mind are strict requirements. In the [Order of the Silver Hand], they act as officers

there also present in the ranks of krokon scarlet crusaders and the argent dawn

highpriestest macdonnel is listed as a notable templar and shes a priest with a staff, most krokron templars are also priests with staffs.

if we go by what little ingame lore there is, templars are legit just “the strongest paladin and priests” which i feel like is a very fitting title for the paladin player. therefore since uther represents all these points of a templar. hes technically a templar