Overall, I think this is a good tree but agree with some of the other opinions already stated that this tree will live or die based on the visuals. The thought of casting Shifting Power to fire a bunch of splinters into enemies, immediately ripping them out causing small AOE explosions, and then machine gunning the splinters back into an enemy looks unbelievably cool in my head. Really hope the visuals are good here.
Random thought, can we get an Arcane/Frost version of Imbued Warding on the Frostfire tree instead of Reactive Barrier? Imbued Warding is just so good and I donât think people would mind in this instance if both trees essentially had the same talent just with a different set of barriers.
Iâm going to preface my comment by saying this: to say that I play this game casually is probably an insult to casual players, so Iâm not approaching my critique of Spellslinger from the point of view of someone that cares hugely about gameplay or the PvE/PvP implications of Spellslingerâs kit.
Superficially, the name Spellslinger is awful. You could forgive the atrocious name if thematically the kit behind it was interesting or cool, but itâs not.
Who knows, maybe the visual effects look cooler than how the talents are described, but I just donât find the idea of âsplintersâ to be interesting, especially when compared to other Hero Talents.
I think Iâm waiting to see how much change Blizzard is willing to make to these trees at this point before I provide too much feedback. I donât want to give the wrong type of feedback if something like Spellslinger isnât going to change much.
We do have the precedent of name changing (Ruby Adept â Flameshaper). So, Iâll just once again echo the sentiment that the name just doesnât seem to fit what the tree currently describes. We arenât so much slinging spells as we act as slingshots for generated shards of magic to sling themselves. Iâm leaning towards something like Spellfrost Conjurer, or Spellfrost Arcanist.
Regarding the talents Slippery Slinging & Look Again - I think generally these talents are good. I really like the idea of conjuring a mirror image with Displacement. My issue is that they feel like general mage talents, not necessarily âSpellslingerâ talents. Iâd say, conjuring a mirror image fits in a talent tree called something like Spellfrost Conjurer, but Slippery Slinging doesnât seem to fit thematically. Again - Iâm not really criticizing the talents themselves - I like them. I think the theming is dubious.
Donât worry to much about look again. Unless they change it or force it on us we ainât using it, and the way it looks is awful. I like the suggestions to changing it, but I feel like feedback is important early on. Thatâs why they made this thread, and we should give them feedback on the awful talents they made. They donât have a real mage dev anymore, so they need to depend on us to make hero talents stand out and meet what they wanted to do
I am going to push back on this a bit even though I donât necessarily disagree. First, theyâre doing this for all classes not just mage. Second, it isnât as though only mages donât have a dedicated dev, from my understanding no class has a dedicated dev. Some devs may play a certain class and thus have insights into it but generally speaking I donât think most of these devs even play the game at all, sadly. Lastly, I donât think theyâre depending on us to guide their design process but rather are sharing these ahead of time to minimize expectations and to gauge where the most intense pushback will come from so that they can devote their limited resources (though why theyâre so limited since theyâre one of the biggest gaming studios in the world is anyoneâs guess) to the areas that will make the most people happy.
I would caution against believing that just because theyâre sharing this information with us so early on in the process they will ever consider seriously redesigning these trees regardless of the level of outrage or disappointment expressed in the feedback we give them.
A full redesign is a lot of work and unfortunately unlikely because Business Daddy demands more profits and the players demand timely releases.
One can always hope though. Best not to assume the devs workflow, and just speak your mind plainly. If you hedge your criticism, it does them no favors to get feedback that is less truthful.
Anyone remember the old âMultistrikeâ stat and the MoP version of IV?
I feel like that would have been much more thematic within the âspell slingerâ idea, where your main spells (e.g. AB, AM, ABarr, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, GS) split into 3 smaller versions. Add a damage multiplier, a MS-based proc underlay, or some sort of interaction with the way that works and youâre off to a good start.
Hell, at this point just having MS apply a dot for a % of the damage they deal would be more exciting than this, despite being almost a copy-paste of Ignite/Icicles.
I dunno, Iâm just not convinced that any of these âamazing new featuresâ with their zero gameplay interaction have hit the mark, and the cynical part of me thinks its just diverting resources that could be used to fix the current trees or gameplay aspects that many specs desperately need.
Edited for suggestion at the end*
For Arcane I think everything has already been said, but itâs worth repeating.
I like that it buffs the current rotation and adds power to our pre-existing spells. So that parts nice. But at the same time feels like weâre just getting a bunch of passives that do their own thing without much user interaction. Not very heroic sounding.
And as a class fantasy it falls flat. Whenever I thought of âSpellslinger Arcane Mageâ not once did I think of âmagic splintersâ. Feels like an afterthought and something that thematically fits better with a hunter (just change em from magic splinters to arrows).
BUT if you were aiming to call on nostalgic love for the Needler from Halo, you crushed it. And maybe with some really cool visuals that look similar to that, it could be great. But if itâs just different colored ice lances that form into one but splinter that looks like Glacial Spike? Then boo-hiss.
Could be pretty awesome. Just doesnât feel mage-like at all atm.
*to cash in on the idea of a Spellslinger I think you just need to allow Y spell to be cast while casting X spell and build it that way. Every third Clearcasted Arcane Missiles could fire 2 Arcane Blasts during its duration without consuming Nether Precision but still providing the buffed damage. That would help with clipping AM. Or it can fire Arcane Barrage that doesnât consume Arcane Charges. Whatever interaction of spells doesnât matter too much, but that sounds like a Spellslinger to me. And Frost can attach it to Brain Freeze Flurries that fire ice lances without consuming winterâs chill. Then youâd really be slinging. IMO at least.
Probably true, but they really shouldnât be asking for feedback if thatâs the case: it sets people up for disappointment. I will say that the design of this tree underwhelmed my already low expectations. It might be fun to play but right now i feel triple vindicated that i could see the lack of effort put into this class since the beginning of df. I had so much hope but seeing the pile of ignored mage feedback and that welly was broken in a beta build gave me an ick.
Itâs sad too because i was planning on staying consistently subbed during this expansion, even if i didnât have time to play. They definitely lost money because of it from me over it.
Oh I completely agree, just trying to be realistic with the expectations. And yeah, I just donât understand why they struggle so much to capture the mage fantasy when at the same time they so clearly hit the mark with the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse tree for DKs as an example.
Itâs not like they donât have inspiration to draw on. Khadgar, Jaina, Kaelâthas, Elisande, the list goes on. I mean for crying out loud the assets are already in the game, all they have to do is make them available to the players by incorporating them into these new trees. Why theyâre choosing instead to waste resources on making new stuff that no one seems to like or want I just donât know.
To my mind at least, the only explanation for this is that the new people coming in feel like they need to create something new just to justify their paycheck because of the ever-present revolving door at Blizzard these days. Unfortunately, they donât seem to have to same time, skills or resources (likely a combination of the 3) that their predecessors did and so the end result is⌠lackluster.
When you have 2-3 goes in a 2s match. 1 broken poly is an auto L, and takes a lot to recover.
You actually have no clue how organized 2s or 3s works. Breaking poly is the single worse thing you can do in a high rated game. When you only have 2-3 icy veins goes as double dps in 2s, 1 polymorph break during one of those goes will create a loss. I rather have a player do 100k damage and stay in stealth and not break polymorph than a player do 2M damage and constantly breaking polymorph. The only game modes where it is mildly accepted is in solo shuffle and possibly 3v3, where your other teammates can help you recover. Breaking poly is usually done by accident by other players or rarely frostbomb. Now we will have no control of this happening at all. Especially when all the hero talents look like they will now break polymorph for frost. Breaking polymorph in 2s absolutely horrible. 1 polymorph break can cost you the game. Not enough people know this to stop themselves from doing it. The fact its also attached to our frostfire bolt is really bad. Canât do damage and peel at the same time anymore because it has a chance to explode for 80% of its damage to nearby enemies. Having it as the base mage toolkit with no option to take talents that do not break poly will kill mage PvP in 2s entirely. We will be forced to play with other players that cleave or just brute force damage and not even mind setups. The game mode will switch to not sheeping healer and just cleaving/aoeing. This is very bad for the game. There will be no more setups. If you canât see this and how bad of a problem these hero talents are, then I think you have a problem. Itâs more than just calling me out at this point, especially when I am 100% right.
Yeah the dk dev is definitely phenomenal and theyâve given me some hope in the class devs. Iâm already so invested in cloth and now maybe leather classes iâm finding a switch hard to do. But both the Paladin and DK trees are giving me pause. And added bonus is i have the mage tower appearances for both.
Kaivax,
Thanks for sharing. As I read through the descriptions I think you hit a lot of the things I was hoping for. I am an orb barrage fan and this gives orbs much more play for me, so Iâm happy there. I also LOVE passive improvements (we juggle enough spells already in arcane), and the tree is full of passives. I am also a big fan of Supernova and sad I donât get to play it, so making that better is a plus for me. My overall rating is A- because it makes me happy.
Reading through the feedback of others, I donât see any prevailing love or hate for it overall, though some raise decent questions about when certain things will proc, so hope you address those. Some seem to have wanted WAY more from the hero talent build(s), but my expectations are pretty temperateâŚI wasnât expecting this to totally change how we play. But tell me there is a ton of passive benefit and I can use orbs more, and you got me! Spellslinger FTW!!!
Spinters acting off Nether Precision would indicate this talent will be carried over into WW. The interaction between NP and it forcing us to clip arcane missiles is not enjoyable gameplay. Can this be addressed somehow?
The talent buffing Supernova is very concerning. Where in the name of Khadgar will I find a place on my spell bars for Supernova when Iâm already having to consolidate spells into 4 different macros just to have enough room on my bars and what talents will we lose access to to take Supernova.
Otherwise thematically these splinters are the best you could do with two spell schools that donât really have much in common thematically or gameplay-wise but the theme of spinters seems rather laclustre compared to what other classes are getting. Maybe seeing the animations for it will change my level of enthusiasm but as it stands I canât say Spellslinger is looking very exciting.
I already address it by not doing it. Truncating channeled spells because of a slight DPS gain has always felt degenerate for me so Iâve never done. Frankly, I think that historically they havenât done anything to address this issue (which applies to other classes with channeled abilities as well) because that isnât the intended way to play, even if it is optimal. In other words, this one is kinda on the players for choosing to do it that way.
Thatâs my hope as well. As many people already pointed out this entire tree will turn on its visuals. Frankly, Blizzard didnât do themselves any favors calling these things âsplintersâ because the image that evokes in everyoneâs mind is a tiny piece of wood stuck in your finger and the annoyance of having to pull it out. Nothing about that screams (or even whispers) âheroic.â But then the nomenclature on this entire tree has been problematic from the start going back to the âSpellslingerâ name they picked so at least theyâre being consistent with their poor choice of words, lol.
I think the idea of manifesting magic through crystals is a pretty good blend of Arcane and Frost. I just donât think the name Spellslinger really delivers that specific fantasy and I donât think they should be called Splinters. Iâd call them Spellcrystals or something.
I might have gone a different direction instead of Icicles 2.0, but I think with strong visuals and a couple name changes, this tree is solid.
I agree although I actually think they went with âsplinterâ specifically to avoid the immediate association with one spec over the other. Thatâs why they didnât use âshardâ or âfragmentâ which immediately makes you think of glass/ice or âboltâ or âmissileâ which would make you think arcane, even though all of those are arguably much better than âsplinter.â Itâs just another one of the pitfalls of trying to use these hero trees to bridge specs after spending years and years going out of their way to distinguish them from one another.
