Feedback: Slayer Warrior

Classes Warrior
124

That’s for the clarification.

There is some clarification needed about a few things for full context.

Does Frenetic Flurry break CC like a full Bladestorm or is it just damage? If so this may get tricky to balance in PvP.

Are Bloodthirst and Overpower getting longer cooldowns compared to live?
Slayer Reflexes and Constant Pressure reset or lower the CDs on Bloodthirst/Overpower but right now they make up the majority of the rotation to the point of causing carpal tunnel. So it leads us to believe there is some sort of change with these two abilities.

Is Bladestorm’s duration altered in any way? The current problem with Bladestorm for Fury is Enrage duration when using it. Is it getting a shorter duration version like it had before or are other changes being made to accommodate it?

125

It would appear the intent is to create some semblance of diversity by allowing Colossus to be Mortal Strike centric while Slayer promotes Overpower, rather than both doing the same.

I agree about the already abundant resets, though the existence of these new Slayer talents imply there are likely class/spec changes we haven’t seen yet.

Same point. Obviously we have to wait to find out what they’re doing to the standard trees, but it seems very likely something else is in the works.

126

This was largely fixed in Battle for Azeroth, by reducing the duration of Fury’s Bladestorm to 4s and hasting it. There’s certainly room for a Titanic Rage style talent that automates and guarantees Enrage for the duration, but covering Bladestorm with Enrage should not be a problem under most normal operation.

A bigger problem was refreshing Enrage after Bladestorm ends, though that became easier after Rage generation was added to the ability, especially with Recklessness active. Need to see how it works out with whatever the rage economy looks like in TWW, but those values should be easy enough to tweak in order to create a smooth playstyle.

It also makes me curious if the Frenetic Flurry triggered mini-Bladestorms will generate partial rage the way Signet did (numerically 1 tick of Bladestorm would be worth 4-5 rage, though that was added to compensate for GCD time and so it might be discarded if Frenetic Flurry truly is a non-invasive background action).

2 Likes
127

The other thing for me was also just using bladestorm. There is zero choice but to cast rampage and immediately bladestorm. And holding rampage is usually not the play so you were always stuck behind that barrier of needing to rampage so you would have enrage to cover your storm.

Now yes, this is a small complaint, and the degree varies based on the rage economy of the time. But if Bladestorm is supposed to be a major cooldown why can’t it solve those problems and feel empowering? That’s really where I come from with it.

1 Like
128

I agree completely, which is why I say I think there’s room for a Titanic Rage style talent or some other solution, I’m simply pointing out that covering Bladestorm with Enrage is not the debilitating issue it was back in Legion.

3 Likes
129

Written as an Arms warrior.

Specific to Slayer:
Top-level thoughts:
My first thought: “RNG procs buffing RNG procs that buff Bladestorm. Also other RNG procs. I guess that’s ok? Seems kind of boring, I hope it at least adds cool visuals in the procs. Oh, that mobility talent is great, and Pummel/Storm Bolt during Bladestorm is a nice QoL improvement.”

Thinking further, anyone who enjoys the Dragonflight S3 set playstyle will probably like this tree, and looking through the comments that seems to be the case. Not my cup of tea (here’s hoping Colossus ends up fun), but it seems to scratch the itch for a chunk of the player base, so I guess no complaints about the top-level concept.

Bladestorm talent effects: (Bliz clarification question)
Since all Bladestorm damage events trigger Overwhelming Blades (thanks for that clarification), will there be any unmentioned interaction between Imminent Demise/Frenetic Flurry Bladestorm damage events and other existing Bladestorm talents (Blademaster’s Torment, Hurricane, etc.)? Does Frenetic Flurry trigger Imminent Demise?

  • If yes (even a partial yes), that adds another whole level of interesting effects to this Hero tree, but also adds more weight to forcing/limiting the talent tree build when using this Hero tree (maybe - with the shorter Bladestorm cooldown, it already leans on those talents quite heavily).

Bladestorm effectivity in single target:
With the current priority level of Bladestorm in single target fights (basically just don’t do it, ever), I would not be surprised to find single target Slayer talent builds that don’t pick up Bladestorm (or more likely, Slayer just wouldn’t be used for single target). I’m not confident Imminent Demise and Overwhelming Blades is enough of a bonus to make it worth the GCD’s, especially when considering Anger Management/Test of Might for Arms and maintaining Enrage for Fury.
But, like everything else, this is not accounting for potential changes to the warrior talent trees.

Overwhelming Blades: (Bliz clarification question)
Does a new stack refresh the timer, or does each stack individually have a 10 second duration? (my suspicion is the latter, but I don’t see it clarified)

Vicious Agility/Relentless Pursuit:
I really like the idea of Vicious Agility, but I just don’t see it being near as useful as Relentless Pursuit in 90% of situations.
Note, both are awesome, and my warrior has killed for less.

Slayer Reflexes/Constant Pressure:
As mentioned by others, these talents are just shy of 100% useless for current Arms. [Input obligatory “pending any other warrior talent tree changes” comment]

Zoomed-out Hero tree comments:
I like that Arms has the options of a RNG based Hero spec (Slayer) and a more deterministic Hero spec (Colossus). I personally prefer more deterministic playstyles, but I am not everyone, so having both options is a good plan (here’s hoping they are balanced well). That said, I’m not sure how Fury warriors feel about both their Hero spec options being heavily RNG based (I don’t play Fury, so I legitimately don’t know).

Based on conversations between me and a Demon Hunter I play with:

  • “Slayer” is a Legion Class Hall title for Demon Hunter. It feels wrong to use it as a Warrior Hero spec. Please use a name for the Hero spec that isn’t already directly tied to another class’s identity.
  • So Colossus warrior gets an ability described as similar to Eye Beam, and Aldrachi Reaver DH gets a debuff similar to Colossus Smash. I don’t want to fearmonger or throw red flags everywhere before we actually get a chance to play them and see how they feel, just a minor note of concern of the Hero trees potentially moving 2 classes closer towards each other rather than enhancing each class’s existing feel.
    (Yes, I acknowledge that there are plenty of class ability concepts that are already shared. The only reason this stood out to me was both got something seemingly from the other at roughly the same time, and I happen to know these classes better than most. I’m not saying this is necessarily bad, just a class identity concern for the Hero trees.)
130

Thematically Slayer should be named Beyblade instead. A Slayer would be more Execute themed, raging, bloodthirsty…they should get a stacking buff on killing blows or when getting x killing blows your next sudden death proc does like the monk’s death touch. Ya know, actually slaying the opposition. Or maybe a buff related to the lower the opponents health the more haste they get. Maybe slayers get off by their teamates getting killing blows and that also enrages them. This tree seems more for pvpers not class fantasy.

2 Likes
131

On second read, slayer has no ravager interactions, i’m gonna be seriously pissed if they remove it in favor of bladestorm. Initially i just assumed that we would have either both, or that they would make the storm thing work with ravager too, but now i’m actually getting a little worried after thinking about it a bit more.

Ravager is literally a superior version.

I DO NOT WANT to use bladestorm, i don’t really like it on arms, and i certainly don’t like it on fury, i only tolerate it on arms because ravager isn’t there, but it if was i would drop bladestorm for ravager faster than you could blink.

If they were to make it so you could use other abilities in between bladestorm i would like it more, otherwise it’s bad, literally wasting resources. Spinning around doing nothing for a few seconds.

The only advantage storm has is utility, but in terms of actual gameplay and throughput ravager is quite literally the SUPERIOR version.

If they remove rav in favor of storm, that will literally make fury instantly way less fun to play as far as i’m concerned.

132

Bladestorm does damage. More news at 11.

9 Likes
133

In St Bladestorm is a DpS loss.
At what time more news?

134

Oh, you’ve played TWW and know the dps tuning? Can you please share with the rest of us pleebs the damage numbers and coefficients?

Or you could just choose not to be a pedantic whiner. Your choice.

1 Like
135

Just doing damage alone is not enough when ravager does it way better. Your comment frankly lacks insight, it’s just for outrage. Oh you said that you don’t like standing there for a few seconds doing nothing??! Well you are doing something, you’re doing damage!

You have to be purposefully obtuse in order to miss the point.

Storm is frankly not good enough, and replacing rav with storm is insane, but we’ll see. You might subjectively like storm, but objectively ravager is a more powerful, better designed ability.

136

Here’s the thing, having breaks for a channelled attack like Bladestorm that happens over a duration is pivotal to making gameplay more fluid and allows more of the playerbase to play for longer (what blizzard want you to do).

More breaks in a rotation = Less fatigue ergonomically speaking since Warriors are a class people like to complain a lot about CPT not really something I’ve experienced myself personally but it’s mentioned A LOT whenever negative aspects of the warrior class are brought up.

In the other perspective, Ravager vs Bladestorm people are going to have polarising opinions based on their own preferences.

Personally I find Ravager to be uninspiring entirely as it’s stuck to the ground, moves slowly, gets stuck in weird pathing at times when a pack is moving, animation is dull it’s a spinning weapon on the ground wow, in pvp it’s horrible to use because people can just sidestep it so you rarely if ever get the full 12s use out of it so it’s an entirely dead pick in one important aspect of the game. (EDIT: Forgot Ravager also compressed with haste, however point still stands regarding getting the full use of it before people move out of it in pvp)

Whereas on the oppose end I really enjoy Bladestorm, as it gives a moment of respite in the rotation to plan your next move, it also provides immunity to CCs during it’s channel allowing you to plan your casts accordingly in a fight to also cheese mechanics, in PvP it’s a moment where you’re uncontrollable, a veritable moving blender your opponent is forced to put their hand in and isn’t so easily escaped, the animation is also so much better to look at, not to mention Bladestorm’s duration and tick speed scale compress with haste, assumedly if fury’s getting it’s 3s variant back it’s going to pump hard.
The only negative I can see from Fury’s PoV with bladestorm itself is enrage’s duration and poor usage of it making partial damage ticks not being enraged, which is easily fixed via making bladestorm for fury either enrage you during it’s use, or to always deal damage as if enraged.

Slayer’s focus on Execute and Bladestorm basically make it the Blademaster but without Mirror Images and Windwalk which Blizzard are not wanting to add to the Warrior class for valid reasons.

It’s a solid set-up in terms of design for a hero spec so far comparing to everything else they’ve shown for other classes.

5 Likes
137

Nothing that you said is objective.

The issue about getting stuck in something is frankly overly exaggerated for shock value, but in real encounters it nowhere near as regular as you wanna make it out to be.

As for “uninspiring” Completely subjective.

As for moment of respite, you might enjoy it, i actually wanna play my class. I have no issues with eye beams as it’s a fast channel, bladestorm is not the same, it’s a pretty long channel that does nothing other than damage and waste rage.

Pvp issues is literally the only objectively true statement you made, and even then, it’s frankly not that big of a deal, as they could just move out of your bladestorm too.

Here’s what’s actually true, and what is BS.

Ravager is a superior ability from an objective point of view compared to bladestorm, you waste less rage, it does more damage unless you tune bladestorm to absolutely ridiculous levels, which they are not likely to do at all, the rotation has a better flow due to the fact that you can continue to use other abilities, and actually use the rage that it’s generating, leading to a moment of burst resources where you can use more spenders than usual.

Ultimately the only thing that’s true about bladestorm, that is objectively superior to ravager is utility, and mobility of the spell itself because it inherits your own movement speed. That is it, the rest is all, ALL in favor of ravager.

Your last statement is also incorrect, while slayer is not awful, it’s hardly better than other hero specs shown.

There are quite a few hero specs that are better designed. Frostfire particularly is way, WAY better than slayer, and it’s not even close.

Slayer is average, it doesn’t even crack the top spots like scalecommander, frostfire and a few others do.

I categorically do not wanna see bladestorm replacing ravager for fury, make it a choice node for all i care, but not a replacement, that would be absolutely terrible. Or make it so you can use other abilities in between bladestorm so you have the best of both worlds, and i don’t mean pummel, i mean rampage, and other abilities that actually do damage.

138

Bladestorm not being a fast channel like Eyebeam what?

Let’s say for argument sake fury warriors tend to get around ~50% at the start of an expansion from gear and talents alone while enraged.

Fury’s version of Bladestorm goes from a 3s channel to 2s. This further gets compressed during heroism when you’re going to be popping your cooldowns at the start of an encounter or end of one pending the need for the fight.

Bladestorm’s use is gone in a blink of an eye and you’re back to hitting your buttons as you would be in double the time it’s taken for you to press Ravager, There is one GCD difference between the two use wise. You are “waiting” for one whole global cooldown extra after pressing Bladestorm. Not to mention the supporting talents behind it like hurricane will be stacked up much faster as a result as well allowing you to come online much faster in your burst windows and not having to delay your larger hitting abilities to be in a full stacked hurricane window.

I also like how you try and distinguish between objective and subjective then spit out a subjective take as an objective one. Not everyone is going to agree and that’s ok.

6 Likes
139

A normal eye beams last maybe 1.5 seconds hasted, heavily hasted it’s basically 1 second, that is definitely shorter than bladestorm. This is especially true after they changed blind fury.

Also, if they condense the duration they will likely reduce the damage too in order to avoid absolutely insane damage spikes. Or, the power of storm will come from external means, like increased strength, not that it’s necessarily bad, i just don’t see the point in this case, eye beams has demonic, i don’t see bladestorm getting something similar to that.

In other words, ravager can afford to do more damage because the duration is longer and the damage spike wouldn’t be quite as high. You can also use other abilities in between leading to pretty good short bursts of damage.

In that blink of an eye you are likely wasting at least 1 usage of rampage, probably around 80 rage, i cannot understand why some people would prefer this over just using ravager.

Also, this point somewhat undermines your previous one, what about the moment of respite? Do you want a really fast bladestorm which doesn’t impede the rotation much? Or do you want something that gives you time to rest? It’s either one or the other, but you probably didn’t even realize this inconsistency yourself, not to worry, i am here to point them out.

140

Not true.

You’re literally making this up. Furthermore, fury doesn’t currently have BS so you have literally nothing to compare and contrast damage to, unless you’re being toddler’esque enough to compare BS from arms to Rav from fury, which is a special level of cringe.

The irony of this drivel is you don’t even grasp how poorly you’re trying to frame your argument. A hasted BS still provides a small respite, which is exactly the point Greil made. You didn’t point out any inconsistency, you just made yourself look foolish, again.

141

This tree is fairly simplistic but overall this is one of the best designed trees yet.

  • It has a clear focus
  • The improvements to bladestorm, mobility will be useful in PvP and PvE.
  • Damage procs and ramps can be too RNG but this sounds like it will be a nice combination of frequency and effect.

Overall I am very excited to try this one.

8 Likes
142

Nice points, oops, actually… not really. Sadly for you, they are false and I’m not about to repeat the same thing again

Yeah that 1.5 seconds blade storm is definitely gonna do much for your boomer hands. Either BS is so fast that it barely impedes the rotation therefore it’s not a moment of respite, or it has a significant channel.

Also yea you can indeed get eye beams basically down to 1 second heavily hasted, and with more normal haste levels 1.5 seconds is not rare at all. In fact it’s average, sorry to burst your bubble.

You might wanna… Think a little more.

143

I still wish we could get more blademaster stuff in arms, and I was hoping that this could be how while also giving it to fury. I’m hopeful that the mirror image ability will someday find its way back to warriors in some form especially.