Welp, on top of the bugged Insignia/Badge, it seems like people have discovered another trinket to abuse, making PvP testing impossible. Gloom-Spattered Dreadscale is one shotting from 100% hp. Please hotfix these so we can do some proper testing.
3 Likes
Would it be possible to implement something like TEA GCD tracker so I can see what people are actually pressing? Feel like thatâs always easier to see as I literally canât see some graphics with my poor gpu (I canât see monk chi cc cloud for instance)
Yes, this needs to be addressed. Unrated normal/epic/brawl PvP has been unplayable for solo casual play for all of TWW, and its the entry point of PvP! I donât think adding training grounds while leaving this unaddressed is good enough.
Its no wonder PvP isnât growing when anyone whoâd like to dip their toes into PvP queue up for unrated pvp, and are put up against queue syncing premades with bis gear on disc voice & ingame pinging target calling, against uncoordinated groups.
Thereâs already a mode for these types of battlegrounds, rated battlegrounds.
Incentivize that mode more, and let unrated bgs be a fun/casual/relaxed mode again.
Either match premades against premades heavily, limit group sizes that can que unrated to solo/duo/trio, and make all pvp cross-faction to shorten the queue times and to lessen the impact of queue syncing, it needs change.
4 Likes
The prestige/honor level system is very outdated by now, it still rewards the same rewards from legion, the honor levels take forever to farm and thereâs nothing past 500 (and 500 can take you a decade to achieve).
A seasonal renown track for PvP would be amazing for participation, and feeling like youâre working towards something in a meaningful timeframe. Currently, farming honor doesnât feel great because you need so much of it, and the rewards are so far and so few inbetween the levels.
6 Likes
An issue for new people coming into PvP is the gearing. There is still quite a difference between epic and green pvp gear, it gets worse when you add set bonuses in. Newer PvP players will likely want to start in random bgs and skirms, unrated pvp. The problem is the gearing is so painfully slow through unrated that newer players feel forced to be stomped in rated to get the gear to then be able to push their rating.
Sure really skilled players can do alright in greens but for someone new to PvP, you want to be as best prepared as you can and currently that takes way to long in unrated. Unrated and rated PvP should award conquest at the same rate. Play which ever you want and if you want to gear up an alt halfway through the season it is easy to do so. This will help newer players get their full PvP set and then feel ready to push into rated PvP.
1 Like
We really, really need a custom whitelist for enemy player buffs, as well as separate controls for the size, scale, number, and position of buffs, debuffs, and bigdebuff.
I cannot emphasize this enough: I was never able to see what was happening in PvP until I sat down for a few hours and learned Plater. That addon single-handedly made PvP playable. It was an entirely new game after that.
Without the necessary controls for aura tracking on nameplates, I feel nearly blind.
By the way, in duels, on the beta realms, your opponentâs nameplate is still considered a friendly player nameplate. It should switch to an enemy player nameplate when the unit goes hostile.
10 Likes
I would like to add, in reference to the statement in the first post about new players being âinstructed by their peers to setup a multitude of addons to show important informationâ:
The only necessary addon is Plater. Nothing else is truly needed. However, all of Platerâs extensive functionality is absolutely essential.
If the built-in nameplate customization features end up being any less robust, the addon-less PvP experience is going to be a complete mess; especially in casual modes, like battlegrounds, where you canât rely on arena unitframes to track information.
Do not attempt to scale back Platerâs functionality for a more âstreamlined, approachableâ UI setup process. Copy everything whole-hog. This is seriously what it will take to provide a functional PvP UI.
If you want âapproachable,â you just need to put a lot of thought into the default configuration. Most players wonât change much if it works.
1 Like
Iâd like to talk briefly about the UI changes, their impact on PvP combat and decision making, and what I would still like to see added back in for it to feel good.
Here is an example of my current UI on live in arena:
https://i.imgur.com/bWZ9XqM.jpeg
(ignore the party target frames on the top left for the sake of this discussion, Iâm primarily focused on the party frames, gladius/enemy frames, and nameplates/BigDebuffs)
Current UI on beta (only addon here is Platynator):
https://i.imgur.com/QEOu8oN.jpeg
Overall, I would say while the beta UI is usable, it is severely lacking. I have concerns with an expansion taking away the amount of information that I have access to and ultimately making it harder to play the game well.
Something similar to OmniCD really needs to find its way to the base UI (and be available to addons through an API) to be able to see important friendly CDs. I should be able to know when a teammate used their PvP trinket or important cooldown (especially defensive), so that I can properly determine whether I need to commit my trinket or cooldown to save them.
The nameplates need improvements. Some type of buff/debuff filtering/configuration is desperately needed. The cooldown manager allows us to configure each bar with the list of spells we want to see. Can we have something similar to configure each nameplate category, buffs, big debuffs, etc? I donât really care to see Fort and MotW during combat on my friendly nameplates, and Iâd like to be able to configure which buffs and debuffs are shown in the Big Debuffs category similar to how the addon currently works on retail.
Lastly, tracking enemy interrupt cds would be nice to have back. Iâm not expecting the full functionality of OmniBar, but at least interrupts are pretty crucial.
I wonât talk about the damage meters much yet, theyâre clearly a work in progress. Can we at least see enemy damage/healing, and death logs?
Thank you for reading.
3 Likes
I havenât had a chance to sift thru all these patch notes/fine-print/etc, so Iâm curious⌠are they adding their own version of Capping addon?
If itâs true that 3rd party addons are being disabled come next expac, I canât imagine just how awkward BGs and especially epic BGs are going to be without some sort of on-screen indicator to tell pugs the status of the match (boss health, wall health, timers on flags, etc)
Like, if youâre a casual PvPer then Capping is basically a mandatory addon and it is used literally every day if you happen to play epic BGs
Skimming thru some of this forum I didnât really see a mention of Capping addon and what happens if it gets disabled along with all these other addons theyâre disabling, so I figured I would ask. But if they are working on their own in-house BG flag timers, boss health indicators, wall health indicators, etc on the UI somewhere then itâs whatever I suppose
3 Likes
I really think the nameplate enemy buffs situation is a class balance issue, too.
Everyone with functioning eyes can see Ice Block or Aspect of the Turtle. Everyone can react to those abilities and not waste buttons. The same is not true for Evasion or Blur. Even good players will probably take a global or two to notice those abilities if they are not clearly displayed on nameplates or arena frames.
Same deal with offensive cooldowns. Metamorphosis and Combustion are relatively easy to see. Shadowy Blades and Coordinated Assault are close to impossible. And as we all know, reacting slowly to offensive cooldowns is often the difference between winning or losing.
This is why my single biggest concern for PvP in Midnight is whether the enemy buffs display is functional. A white list would be nice, but Blizzard should at least make sure that all major cooldowns are displayed by default and that the tracker shows the last two buffs used, not the two oldest buffs.
This issue will, for me, make or break PvP in Midnight.
5 Likes
Nameplates are absolutely brutal in PvP right now. It should readily display enemy defensive and offensive cooldown usage without me having to stare at the tiny icons under their frame
7 Likes
This issue is extremely important.
However, if we are to require precise premade group size and count parity in order to form a match, a match will likely not be made. Of course, that doesnât mean that the issue is intractable and queue-syncing griefers should be allowed to continue to ruin matches.
Cross-faction battlegrounds would, once-and-for-all, solve the queue-syncing issue, but there are two significant considerations:
1. Cross-faction mustnât be optional. If it is, the queue syncers will simply not opt in.
2. Collusion will be exacerbated. Members of a particular PvP cabal will end up on both sides of the same match.
Even so, I would be very much in support of forced cross-faction in all battlegrounds, so long as we arenât transmogrified into hideous facsimiles of other races when playing for the enemy team.
There is another option, but it requires manual review:
1. Simply declare queue synchronization to be against ToS.
2. Observe that queue syncers typically have winrates above 95% in the battlegrounds they grief, and winrates of 99% or above when matched with their conspirators.
3. Next, observe that when these players are in a match, players on the enemy team will /afk out at an unusually high rate, leading to a revolving door of backfill.
4. Next, observe that these queue syncers end up in matches with the same players on their team consistently.
With all these metrics, a queue syncerâs account becomes a gleaming beacon of abuse. They are extremely easy to identify. After making the announcement on organized queue synchronization being against ToS, just ban them if they keep doing it.
4 Likes
Capping and other similar addons were some of the things I hoped would be rectified with the universal UI updates. Probably the biggest knowledge check in the game is whether or not you have an addon that gives you the cap timer on an objective. Itâs insane that thereâs still no way to see it in the base UI. Or check wall HP on the map in an EBG.
They 100% need to add timers to objectives on the map, or at the very least add a depleting bar above the objective that shows the timer if they want to keep it limited to needing to be standing in front of it to see it. But as it is right now where itâs basically completely blind without addons is really bad for serious PvP and actually expands the knowledge gap more than just requiring the knowledge to install an addon. It actually makes it so that thereâs no simple way to just know the timers without having played each map 100 times and memorized them.
Between this and the current state of DR tracking, Iâm getting a bit concerned that PvP will not be in a ready state come launch time. We still need massive overhauls to the customization of the arena frames (not just one element that you can drag and resize in Edit Mode, we need specific customization for DR placement, padding between names, ability to right click to set focus instantly, etc.)
Also, I think they should make it clearer when somebody doesnât have a Trinket available. Even if it doesnât show the cooldown, itâd be nice if there was a specific border or highlight on their nameplate when they have Trinket available. Maybe like a thicker armored border kinda like how uninterruptable casts show. Then, when they donât have one available (or they donât have one equipped at all), itâll just show normally.
Last thing I wanted to add on (no pun intended) was Spy. Spy is a pretty broken addon. I think there are things that Spy does that makes it a bit unhealthy for WPvP. But one thing I really like about it is that it gives you an idea of how many people youâre up against, or if youâre flying around looking for some action, it saves a lot of time when thereâs a high chance that thereâs nobody in the zone at all (basically you can confidently determine that just by doing a few sweeps around, meanwhile without it, youâd have to second guess every nook and cranny you didnât specifically check). We can /who to see our own faction, but itâd be nice if they added a way to manually search the zone for opposing faction members while in War Mode. Not to give you their exact location or anything, but just show a list of the people from the opposing faction that are in the zone and not currently in a Sanctuary.
2 Likes
Still looking for someone to confirm when training grounds will be online. The state of this feature is directly correlated to getting new/returning players into Midnight PVP.
1 Like
Feedback on the new nameplates in PvP:
Why are nameplates showing buffs like the warmode buff or the skyriding buff? This is irrelevant information, nameplates need to show major offensive/defensive class cooldowns, it doesnât need to show permanent auras or hour long buffs.
Iâd also like the option to choose where to display CC, on live I use Betterblizzplates to have CC display in the middle of the nameplate alongside my other debuffs, but Iâve resized CC icons to be bigger to easily differentiate them. I keep the right side of nameplates mostly clean, it only shows successful interrupts. Would be nice to choose where to display CC/kicks, and customize the size.
Another suggestion for the Loss of Control alerts:
The Loss of Control alerter should be added to editmode, and let us customize it e.g moving the icon, removing the big red lines around the icon or the black background, and resizing. Iâve done this with addons to make it look cleaner, and moved it slightly so it doesnât block my character during CC.
4 Likes
I donât see anyone addressing this, but the pacing feels absolutely awful right now. Trinket bugs and others aside, it is so incredibly slow and boring, even in duels, because damage and self-healing are waaay out of balance. Itâs basically drifting back into Battle for Azeroth levels of sloggy fights where your abilities feel like they hit for nothing and everyone passively heals it back anyway. PvP needs those moments where pressing cooldowns actually matters, where you create real pressure, and burst is something people have to respect and react. If you commit your cooldowns on a full-health target with no defensive cdâs up, there should be a real kill threat instead of this wet noodle trade off that drags on forever.
Listen, I realize this is early on and weâve got many months of testing ahead, but I have to put this out there cuz Iâve only seen a few others sort of mention it. For the small chance someone reads this a takes it seriously, I had to bring it up because I would hate for the game to go in this direction with PvP again.
3 Likes
Numbers always get changed at the end of the beta cycle. Nobody died in tww beta til the last few weeks.
4 Likes
Not quite a change, but first thing I tested was if they fixed Bane of Havoc in Midnight. They did not. It still doesnât copy Witherâs damage over time (it copies Immolate fine). This makes it much harder to use for Hellcaller in PvP (I mostly do World PvP, but I often used this talent in RBGs too before TWW). And my prior solution doesnât suffice anymore either, of lining it up with a Soul Fire proc.
1 Like
First the positive, the removal of addons and integrating most needed aspects to being baseline in the UI is a good move, it should be a long term positive to bring in new players (something pvp heavily needs)
While this change is going to be good it is absolutely needed to make a few solid changes.
The UI needs to be able to choose what buffs are displayed on a class basisâŚ. and not what blizz wants us to track if i want to track arcane int. let me do that all castable buffs should be able to be added or removed.
All major CDâs need revamped animations and sounds, yes some are very obvious (Ice block is a good example) some are not obvious. Major cdâs have very little to notate that they are being used barring a few spells. especially in the chaos of a pvp fight. without addons if a mage uses combust or a boomkin uses incarn it needs to be able to be very clearly recognized .5 of a second can be make or break on these cds.
Readability for the entire fight, so players know when things that impact a fight are used is what the majority of addons in pvp do if these function are not added to the default UI It will impact pvp majorly.
2 Likes
yeah it would be healthy to have a kill window every 30 seconds/ up to 1 minute
but currently besides of the trinket bug, it is really hard to kill someone, had a game where noone was abusing the trinkets to actually test the pacing, and it took 8 minutes to kill someone in 3v3 shuffle
smashing buttons do almost no dmg people stay at 90% hp
2 Likes