I’m all for glyphs for these things, but I absolutely do not want shadow mend back. Getting locked out of shadow and losing everything but shield just feels bad. Especially in PVP.
2 Likes
To be fair, the talent says it enhances the range of “most” spells not “all” spells. It may be intentional that these spells aren’t enhanced.
While this is true, having no ability to tell if you’re doing aoe damage or not because the range of your spells and their aoe cleave components arent the same is really annoying.
2 Likes
I believe it should work with Halo; it would be a good talent to use in conjunction with Archon. Currently, the range of Halo does not correspond very well to what is indicated in the ability. Maybe this talent could help with that.
Agreed. Personally I think it’s a crappy capstone talent even if it affected all spells and talents. I would have much preferred a full on interrupt there.
1 Like
I think it should work with all spells/talents, but I was just pointing out the wording. Ultimately I don’t think it should be a capstone talent however it ends up working.
1 Like
As I noted in my feedback I mostly agree with the issues with the new talents, but at least 2 of them come down to a tuning issue.
As for the range one, there’s been a few boss fights where the bonus range would’ve been great. Nymue where you get the bomb you have to run and drop off, Fyrrak for targeting adds a bit further away, there’s a lot of situations where it is useful but not mandatory, and that’s what makes it a useful talent.
1 Like
Disc Priest here. After trying out Cauterizing Shadows in a few heroics the proc rate felt extremely underwhelming. My last run in Ara-Kara it procd a total of 16 times. I think this could be helped if it counted enemies dying while under the affects of SWP or PTW as “expiring” as well.
2 Likes
The following is feedback from a Shadow Priests perspective.
Currently this is not working when a target that has your Shadow Word: Pain active dies. Without this interaction this is extremely underwhelming as a talent and frankly we have much more desirable points elsewhere on the tree at the current tuning. This also adds even more to the talent “soup” that Shadow has of even more leech-like healing off of our spells.
While adding more defensive options to the class is personally nice, this is a bit of an odd place to put something that feels relatively weak.
These two choices in general feel pretty lackluster at current tuning for replacing Mindgames throughput options. I would personally love to see a change here that would consider moving over some of the utility points in the Shadow spec tree into the class tree. Shadow currently has 4 utility nodes in the top section of our spec tree, and we can only take a max of 2 of these before losing damage in that tree. Moving any of these 4 nodes (Dispersion, Silence, Mental Fortitude/Intangibility, or Last Word/Psychic Horror) would be a big improvement for me.
Overall this is a pretty cool talent, but as it stands now its a bit weird to play with when not all of our throughput spells work with this. Primarily this not working with Psychic Link is quite strange, considering all of the spells that work with Psychic Link do get this increased range. In addition, Halo in particular is awkwardly not getting this increase, which is frustrating to play with as Archon spec.
When this was originally added to the tree I thought it had some potential, but was never iterated on to a point where it felt fun in the kit. Overall happy with the direction here, just hope we end up with something cool to replace it.
Similar to previous times Mind Flay was adjusted it would be a large improvement to bump this down all the way to 1.5 second channel so that it syncs with the GCD. By having it be de-synced this can actually have the opposite effect from the blue post goal of making it fit into the rotation better.
Similarly if we could adjust Mind Flay back down to 3 seconds that would be a welcomed change now that we do not have Dark Thought cast while casting procs which is why it was extended last expansion.
8 Likes
Speaking on this for a moment, Shadow also has numerous talents and interactions that increase the duration of Shadow Word: Pain, as well as Misery forcing us to refresh it whenever we need to refresh Vampiric Touch regardless even if it’s well off the 5 second limit.
2 Likes
Bug
Mind Sooth isn’t working when I go to cast the spell, I get the error “you can’t use that here.” Tried in the dungeon and in open world.
Oracle Feedback
I am almost positive Assured Safety’s, shield with Prayer of mending was not intended to stack over and over again. I gave up after 1.8 million.
I am not sure if it was intended but talents like Words of Pios, and Crystallin Reflections trigger off the shield off the Assured Safety. I am not sure if you are pushing us to use shields in holy. Thankfully body and soul dose not trigger off this.
Premonitions feel stronger but it still feels clunky. Having to push this button every 45-sec to a min feels tedious. Insight is still just push and move on. Piety is stronger I just still don’t care that much for this ability. Solace is cool I like this spell just wish I didn’t have to go through the other to get this.
Oracle went from DOA to a strong “maybe” which I think is a good thing. The buffs are stronger and provide stronger gameplay interactions for both Holy and Disc.
-
Insight - Increasing the CDR is really strong now. Lots of options for how to use that all feel good: CoH, PoM, Penance, Purify, Radiance
-
Solace - Shield is good, the DR is better. A great change.
I think that Oracle overall will be harder to play than both Archon and Voidweaver. This is okay, but I think it will see less play out the gate. I also don’t think the visuals of Oracle are that strong. Additionally, Oracle is the only healing hero tree that doesn’t buff our damage in any way other than via Insight.
Remaining Issues
Contrition - Why does this talent still exist? It was a carryover from the previous talent trees and Contrition hasn’t been used in either variation. Contrition also hasn’t been changed or iterated on at all? This talent needs to go.
PWS - Most of the changes for PWS are focused around buffing the value of individual shiels (i.e. tier set, various spec and hero talents, etc.). However, the value of PWS still isn’t at a power level where it feels good to use as a triage tool. Even with Rapture, PWS still isn’t strong enough relative to beta health pools. Ideally, Rapture should apply shields that are about ~45% of non-tank health pools (~2 million).
Mobility - I feel like Phantom Reach was added as a way to help with our “movement” without understand why we keep asking for mobility. We still need a displacement ability. Please add Vault of the Heavens or Door of Shadows to the class tree. We are so dependent on other classes for our movement in a way that isn’t fun.
Tier Set - Buffing PWS/MB feels strange for a raid setting. You’ll only really be able to use this on PWS because during a raid ramp you will always use PWS prior to starting your ramp with MB. I feel this should be changed to be 1) buff PWS AND MB or 2) buff Penance instead of MB
2 Likes
Continuing the discussion from The War Within Beta Development Notes:
This is beyond bad. Let’s conpare shall we
Mind Games was a 1 minute cooldown which could further be reduced with talents. At level 80 is was turning around 128k damage instead into healing and also generated insanity.
Cauterizing Shadows is something you might see proc 16-20 times per dungeon for 7-8k healing. So in an entire dungeon run you will heal the value of like one Mind Games or a single shadow flash heal and generate 0 insanity. Can I at least have a choice node to take Mind Games back cause this talent is bad.
2 talent points for 2% DR is bad value taken to the extreme.
This whole thing needs to go back to the drawing board it is bad beyond belief and I’m amazed that you actually pushed this through. Just give me Mind Games back if this is the level of quality we will be getting in return.
3 Likes
Here’s what I’d love to see happen, since they’re obviously open to small iterations at this point.
Keep the DR and small heal talents in the main priest tree, but ditch Phantom Reach.
Replace it with a choice node: Silence/Door of Shadows.
I know a lot of people wouldn’t like choosing one or the other, but I think that’s the only way priests will get access to an interrupt on all specs, or a mobility option. It would have to be a choice node like that.
Then for shadow replace the silence talent with the cooldown lowering one, and the cooldown lowering talent that is now a choice node with Horrify could be changed to something else. Maybe even Spectral Guise (but that’s wishful thinking).
1 Like
Door of shadows should definitely be on the class tree, but it should not be in a choice node with silence. It might as well not be a choice because outside raids there will never be a point where door of shadows can compete with an interrupt, and quite frankly an interrupt being used as a capstone is outrageous. Shadow shouldn’t be held hostage to healer balancing.
Going to echo what some of the other players are saying, the 3 nodes that were introduced feel like they are out of place where they are (not sure if this is a temporary spot for them or not).
I don’t know if cauterizing shadows actually does any consequential healing for any spec for it to be so far down the class tree and stop players from taking the points underneath it.
I feel like it would make more sense for manipulation to be a one point node that is attached to translucent image(fade giving damage reduction) and for cauterizing shadows to go where apathy is, I could be wrong but apathy seems like a dead node for pvp and pve.
Make phantom reach work with psychic link.
PVP - Nerf Void Leech healing 50%, damage by 20%, VT nerf dam 20%, Essence devourer healing by 20%
These are my thoughts on Oracle vs Archon for Holy.
Oracle
Most of the passive healing bonus is being pushed into PoM with +15% increased healing and +25% absorb shields being made on each bounce.
I mathed it out using existing logs and it’s about a 3.5% overall hps increase.
The only way you’re going to min-max Premonition is by this:
- Using Insight to reduce the cooldown of PoM. You activate Premonition, cast PoM, cast another heal, and then use PoM again.
- Using Piety with a raid healing cd like Divine Hymn + Holy Word Salvation. Divine Hymn already overheals a lot so I think the end result would just be more overhealing.
- Using Solace as a tank defensive.
So at most you’re probably only getting a +5-6% overall healing bonus out of Oracle if you min-max it in raid.
Archon
Most of your healing is front loaded into Halo. The math seems kind of crazy, Halo would go from being 3% to almost 20% of your overall healing in a raid setting.
Couple this with these added bonuses.
- +10% extra healing while in Apotheosis and after using Holy Word Salvation.
- The raid takes increased healing for quite a while. It takes about 5s for the Halo’s to bounce back-and-forth so you’re getting a decent uptime on the buff.
- You get 3 free SoL procs, SoL heals for +30% more, and every SoL CDRs Holy Word Sanctify. You’ll on average get 5-7 SoL procs a minute which means faster Holy Word Salvation resets.
- Apotheosis lasts on average +3s longer if you’re getting consistent Answered Prayer procs. That’s about 1 extra Holy Word during the duration.
- More Stamina = better survivability.
- 10% extra haste while under PI = not the biggest bonus, but better than nothing.
Just the raw HPS bonus from Archon Halo is significantly more than anything Oracle offers. Also, Archon lets you CDR Holy Word Salvation faster… and considering it’s still a -15s CDR instead of -30s on the PTR… yeah.
4 Likes
From the perspective of a Shadow Priest.
The 3 new talents don’t seem exciting or interesting, and don’t seem to respond to anything specifically.
Cauterizing Shadows doesn’t justify losing mindgame as a PvE talent, and worsens our already limited talent choices in PvP. If you want to change mindgames for PvP, at least play Phase Shift for the standard priest tree.
Manipulation is just very bad, we have good survival in general and these values are very low for 2 talents, the main problem with the spec is mobility.
Phanthom Reach - This one is kind of interesting, but I don’t think it justifies 3 points of “bad” talents for them for a few reasons.
In M+ we usually stay melee range to use our Fear and for the Shadow Apparition to reach the target faster, more range won’t change that.
As already mentioned in other feedback, this does not work with Psy Link or Halo, which makes it in fact a Downgrade for the Archon
Door of Shadow as a talent would be awesome. Something to improve our mobility in general.
And i will keep dream with a “Blood Shadowform” or a more void color palette for shadowform with glyphs options
5 Likes
Please. PLEASE! Let us turn off the Oracle Eye!
The eye is currently an irremovable static effect that permanently covers up significant portions of our character customization. I have a character who is blind in his left eye, but I am forced to play Voidweaver if I want to see this reflected in his model.
Please. My class fantasy is not YU-GI-OH. Please give us an option to opt out of these visuals.