I never see this in the game, and only read about it here in GD.
Leveling dungeons are so trivial that it doesn’t matter if you pull the whole dungeon or skip groups carefully, you steamroll through it anyway. In hundreds of dungeons, I have never seen a single instance of someone kicking a tank for not pulling efficiently in a leveling dungeon.
In M+, nobody kicks people, and if players leave it is almost always because it’s very clear that a key can’t be timed or because someone is behaving poorly. But even then that is rare below +20. At +20 and above, when dungeons are aborted it is nearly always mutually agreed on because players are exclusively there for score or to push, so nobody has an interest in completing a dungeon that can’t be timed.
This already exists, and had existed as early as Legion.
Blizzard did this in MOP somewhat with Proving Grounds. FF14’s combat is different from WoW’s combat though. FF14 is certainly more casual, largely because CC doesn’t exist in their PVE content.
In short, FF14 is a different game comapred to WoW. It’s good it stays this way. Stealing each others good ideas is fine, ofc.
Final Fantasy’s art style is simply not tied to Spellschools. WoW’s art is tied heavily to Spellschools.
In WoW, a “Frostbolt” reflects “Frost” as a theme and “Shadowbolt” reflects a “Shadow” theme. It’s obvious, of course, but Final Fantasy’s spell visuals often don’t reflect this. When “painting the floor”, FF14 doesn’t usually reflect the theme of the of spell in terms of colors. WoW’s spell visuals certainly reflect that.
A “necrolord” theme is the green, black, teal color scheme. So, we as player know it’s a necrolord-themed spell. This is literally the reason by Blizzard updated Covenant spells in Dragonflight – they were no longer themed with Covenants.
In most cases, “green means good” holds true. And “red means bad” holds true. Green puddles of poison might be changed to purple instead, which is another common color for venom. Color alone isn’t how a spell describes itself to you. The animation might be bubbly as well. A good example of this is trying to determine if a Druid spell is seen and a safe or harmful.
I mean yeah I understand from that direction but it’s just… I don’t know, maybe an accessibility option for players to just turn all things to consistent colors would be nice. I like how XIV handles it but I will conceded that WoW has more ‘flavor’ to how they handle it.
I think WoW’s spell language can be improved, especially if they add rims to swirlies. A lot of their textures don’t stretch nicely in large scales, causing them to become ambiguous. FF14’s sharper look and color scheme is an advantage in that sense. But as you said, the loss of flavor is the cost they pay for it.
The “open” dungeons generally boil down to singular routes at the end of the day anyway so in reality it doesn’t really matter. The people saying they want more open dungeons are delusional because they will end up running the exact same path every time lol.
So kindly tell them you know an optimal way to go and to follow you?
Toxic af, you could have literally whispered the tank and kindly told them most groups go a different way.
You likely could have whispered this kind tank and told them you didn’t like the route. Sounds like they were a good person, but here you are whining and being toxic.
As a mostly tank player, if someone tells me they don’t like the way I’m going, if I’m going too fast or too slow, I adjust. I think most normal people would. Doesn’t sound like you were willing to communicate, and thus, the real problem.
I’m not sure I agree with your logic. The class trainer could have an optional “dungeon basics” scenario quest. However, clearly most players who know what they are doing at this point don’t want new players to get any help at all learn dungeons and raids. They want them to train themselves with no help from anyone, like they falsely claim they did. They look at a new dungeon they can probably run through the first time without incident and ask, what’s wrong with that noob who has never done a dungeon before and makes mistakes? Why doesn’t he just choose to have decades of experience and oodles of help from friends behind his belt like I do?
I think Proving Grounds has been seriously mishandled since the end of MoP. It was designed to be a vanity achievement with a Pandaria flavor, and should have stayed that way. But too many players think that punishing noobs for not knowing everything about the game before they roll their first character is the only way anyone will ever learn.
Considering I know the OP’s name from a certain other forum and know what this poster is like over there…
Yeah, no thanks. To use a quote often beloved over there towards any actual valid criticisms of the game: if you dislike how things are here, you are welcome to go play something else.
In this case, it’s a genuine piece of advice - not simply an attempt to shut down a conversation.
WoW was built with these sorts of larger dungeons in mind, and I and many others adore the scope of them and that they aren’t all the same cookie-cutter “pull two mob packs to a wall, kill them, move into boss room, repeat two more times until done” design. Even if there’s always going to be an ‘optimal’ path for stuff like keys, the fact that even in keys you can choose to do things in different ways or experiment on what works better is great! It keeps things fresh, and keeps things from becoming a mind-numbing snoozefest that you’re forced to repeat for the thousandth time because the playerbase is cripplingly afraid of ‘challenge’ and ‘decisionmaking’.
Dungeons with more open plans tend to be a lot more immersive, especially if they’re outdoors or aren’t in places that would typically have long obvious hallways. It feels like I’ve actually invaded enemy territory instead of just wandering through some bespoke path just for me.
I’ve played since forever. I still get lost in Kara, I can’t navigate Wayland Manor, I don’t know the seemingly endless shortcuts in Darkheart. I even managed to get lost in Throne of Tides the other day.
I also can’t navigate the Dawn of the Infinite instances.
And don’t get me started on Court of Stars!
But that’s OK!
Remember, it’s a GROUP effort. If someone gets lost, go help them! Show them the way! Act as a GROUP, not as a clutch of unconnected individuals.
I think it’d be better if there was more freedom to go and explore without having to pass through walls of enemies blocking our way. Something that made dungeons feel more natural and open.
The problem with a dungeon like Braken is precisely that: it is filled with enemies everywhere you go and there’s little window to explore without aggroing an army.
So, I was wondering, how about we add a blue bar objective to kill a certain amount of enemies, like there is in M+, on easier modes? Or at least in some open dungeons that make sense? The amount required could be quite small, but with the intent to free players, allowing them to explore and kill the stuff they want, not what they have to.
That way, Blizzard can give a lot more free space and change how dungeons are organized. There could be also more meaningful ways to avoid enemies (nowadays it’s just annoying and risky).