But you’d be able to use it 50% as often, that wouldn’t be fun at all
1 Like
Is the (Holy) Paladin dev MIA? I really question the direction of these changes.
None of the underlying issues have been addressed (bloat, reliance on CDs+modifiers, weak spenders), but this build sees nerfs to Glimmer (which is already a shadow of what it was in BFA) and Tyr’s Deliverance, and an extra second to the recharge time of Holy Shock. But to make up for it, we get a 4% aura buff, a slightly stronger Light of Dawn, and a Light’s Prism buff (which again, nobody really wants to use).
Then Herald of the Sun got a considerable Sun’s Avatar nerf (arguably the highlight of playing Herald), and Lightsmith had some wording changes, but is fundamentally the exact same.
14 Likes
What the heck is going on here? Is our feedback even being considered? What is the point of these latest changes? Making the CD on Holy Shock even longer will flat-out feel terrible. If you’re worried about too many Holy Shocks going out, reduce the amount of talents that bring CD reduction & recharges to it; they are already too-plentiful and make the Holy Paladin rotation feel way more chaotic than it should.
I strongly disagree with the path that Holy has been going down since Dragonflight, and I’m thoroughly disappointed that things look to be getting even worse in The War Within. The element of “fun factor” is just gone…
8 Likes
Not gonna lie, I expected Sun’s Avatar nerfs coming eventually, as the amount of healing/damage Dawnlight was doing was pretty nutty. So seeing a nerf (albeit not a 12% one) was honestly expected.
But the fact that it comes, a nerf to Holy Shock and Tyr’s and a small buff to Light of Dawn of all things is…wild.
I’m going to see if I can test how it feels in practice, but again this is weird.
Ok played it a bit in a absolute tragedy of a dungeon, not my fault everyone just kept leaving, and i’ll be honest. Still HotS still feels incredibly nutty in a good way. I’m of the personal opinion that our spenders still need to pack more oomph for their cost, or alternatively they can have their mana costs removed. Then I feel they’d be fine.
5 Likes
the changes to herald with radiant glory, might and crusade is honestly expected. if rg procs dont proc suns avatar then frankly the issues with herald was borderlined solved. is just for me personally, kinda lame to make space for radiant glory to exist. but i cant be to mad cause it makes crusade stronger, might a nice middle g round and radiant glory less oppressive so good work.
looking forward for the next set of ret changes
Out of curiosity, since Radiant Glory is supposed to make AV proc on use, how would it not proc Sun’s Avatar? Are you referring to it not automatically placing Dawnlights on targets?
Our buffed up Holy Shocks are doing like 4% of people’s max HP. The only thing that was keeping the spec afloat was the dawnlights.
I don’t think that there should have been any nerfs if they weren’t accompanied by massive buffs. The base kit of Paladin is very undertuned. Everything except Holy Light is doing less than other healers
7 Likes
I just wanna piggy back on this to say that the thing I always enjoyed about Martyr and the Maraad’s playstyle was being able to bomb really big spot heals when needed. It was very strong at keeping people alive which made the damage trade off feel worthwhile. Having it attached to Holy Shock doesn’t capture the same feeling (especially with current tuning) because HS is the core ability in our rotation and we’re incentivized to spend the charges often to spread glimmer.
I wish they kept Martyr as an actual ability because then you can have it be this juicy spot heal and keep the choice of when to spend it. Tying it to WoG I think would be better but then you have yet another modifier which can be problematic when tuning the ability. Which unfortunately impacts most of our abilities currently.
Speaking of put spenders, I still vote for LoD to apply Glimmers to everyone hit.
Lessen the burden of Holy Shock, give the spell an actual purpose, and may even encourage getting those stupid talents that increase its range.
If you don’t want LoD to trigger Glimmers, thats fine, but being able to set up for big damage by casting LoD and then using HS to trigger them would be nice synergy.
3 Likes
I cannot possibly stress this enough. Radiant Glory is now a dead talent for Herald of the Sun.
2 Likes
yeah wouldn’t it make more sense for both AW and Crusade to give 4 dawnlights, and RG to give two since it can be used twice as often?
No, it makes sense for all of them to give 4 because that’s where most lot of the haste comes from for burst.
Radiant Glory + Crusade already suffers from almost half of its duration dedicated to stacking it up. Now less haste makes that even worse.
I’m thinking 2 would be the best sweet spot.
I feel since RG puts wings on a 30ish second cooldown, almost max amount of dawnlights ever 30 seconds would RG almost a hard requirement when using HotS.
While I’m not a particular fan of the inconsistent number, it does seem to work. Crusade has the longest cooldown, so it drops the highest amount, and then just goes down from there.
Really hoping that Light of Dawn becomes an AOE heal instead of a frontal. It really isn’t fun to have to turn around and aim it at the group, especially when people are typically all over the place. An AOE heal would solve that so you don’t have to figure out where people are and still do decent healing
8 Likes
Additional feedback, this time with Lightsmith Holy. While HotS has the Dawnlights which help in aoe intensive situations, all Lightsmith to deal with that is the base toolkit.
A base toolkit that’s incredibly weak more often than its not.
It feels like, to effectively heal as a Lightsmith you have to,
- Pray you have Infusion
- Cast Hand of Dinvinity
- Cast Virtue
- Cast Infusion-Holy Light
- Cast Holy Prism
Which…does not feel great.
6 Likes
Also, what’s going on with Crusade? It currently has the tooltip of AW Might, but doesn’t actually do anything.
Is crusade getting redesigned into something else and a placeholder was put in, or simply an error?
Error. Might and Crusade are working fine on my end.
Weird. My crusade only activates avenging wrath without the crit bonus. Even after relogging, changing specs and changing back, etc.
Edit: and then randomly just now my 5th wake of ashes activated crusade proper.
the overall changes to to holy pally and lightsmith feel great. The tuning per ability feels alot wonky. The damage of holy pally feels non existent i hope healer damage isnt left so low.
Ive mostly been using at holyshock melee playstyle. Ive noticed majority of healing is in Armaments which might be because damage profiles are too easy and there isnt anything to heal or its severely tuned to that ability.
Holy pally damage feels like its very non existant. they are doing less damage then s4 which feels absolutely bad especially to percent of damage being done by rest of the group. If healers are taking such a big trinket nerf they need to see larger damage increase.
How did you deal with aoe? Perhaps I was just too conservative with the armaments?